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hey greg i just wanted to say uh i love

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the episode with uh robert morningwood

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probably the best episode i think i've

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listened to most of them need to get

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that guy on again and

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do about a six-hour episode i'll listen

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in the 1930s

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through a series of radio broadcasts

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known as the fireside chats

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his aim was to reassure the common man

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that our society would recover from its

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for a new era of worldly frustration we

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hallelujah higher side chatters we are

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back in the saddle drinking my drink

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smoking my smoke from sunny san diego

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i'm greg carl wood and i am so psyched

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to finally be launching thc plus with

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this show so people who have subscribed

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for five dollars a month will be able to

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hear two hours today

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at

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thanks so much for helping me out by the

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way and if you're listening to

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traditional means the free show will be

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a one hour show but this is a great one

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to launch with nick redfearn the amazing

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author and researcher that i'm sure all

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of you know is here and today every

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conspiracy we talk about involves either

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some missing files or strange deaths and

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these are two factors that oftentimes

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are missed because the files or the

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people don't go missing

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sometimes until years after the events

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or while the shadowy puppet masters are

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out there doing some cleanup that

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nobody's paying attention to some of

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these cases we talk about are really new

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to me and are pretty interesting and

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some of the conspiracies we talk about

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are pretty legendary also but even on

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something like roswell even though i've

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heard the story a thousand times i still

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wonder if it's a real space alien story

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of course i leaned towards yes but it

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can't really be proven at this point

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that said when you hear about files that

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have been taken or destroyed and a

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series of witness deaths and stuff that

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can be proven it forms a stronger and

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stronger case and that's what this

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episode is largely about and both hours

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contain some great stories wilhelm reich

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marilyn monroe and aleister crowley oh

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my i also want to throw out there that

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i'm looking for more theme songs and

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more independent artists and bands that

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want to hear their own music on thc

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outros so i'm trying to set up an

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archive to use and avoid copy written

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music because a show of this nature

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specifically really shouldn't have such

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a huge vulnerability like that and so

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we're going to fight the system by

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making our own archive of usable music

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by the artists and fans that like the

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show so you can read more about it at

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thehiresidechats.commusic

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or you could just submit your own tunes

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to the show via email at

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mymusiconthc

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gmail.com

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and if we get a lot of music in there

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you know we have a lot of fans that have

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submitted stuff over the years it just

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gets so convoluted with all the emails i

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get i miss things i lose things but

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having it all at this email having only

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this email dedicated to accepting song

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submissions it's gonna make it so much

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easier

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and if it gets bigger i see no reason

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why we shouldn't open it up to other

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shows because putting such huge prices

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on mainstream copyrighted music is just

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a system to ensure that huge networks

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and companies like sony music universal

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paramount

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these companies have access to things we

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independent artists don't have access to

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and can't get access to and it's clearly

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the most popular well-produced music

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available so that puts a ceiling on

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independent artists in the same way that

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a large amount of regulations and red

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tapes and liquor licenses keep people

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from being able to open restaurants and

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compete with the big boys and the big

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chains that have already solved those

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problems nationwide so i don't like that

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[\h__\h] so i'm gonna try to circumvent it

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and i hope you're with me and i hope the

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artists out there also appreciate the

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chance to be on a national global stage

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and it doesn't cost them anything

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i think it's a win-win so let's do the

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damn thing the money bomb is still

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growing strong if you want to hear the

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extended show and haven't signed up yet

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please go to the

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highersidechatsplus.com it supports me

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keeps a roof over my head and keeps the

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good times flowing

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but let's just get down to it and dive

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right into a ocean of weirdness and a

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sea of strange coincidence

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with nick redfern

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when i find myself in times of trouble

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mr carlwood comes to me speaking words

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of wisdom

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thc

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all right folks as you well know when

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we're talking about things like

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extraterrestrial contact high profile

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assassinations and secret mind control

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programs you get many different

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perspectives and angles to these stories

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and it's very hard to get any type of

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absolute proof add in the fact that the

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keepers of these secrets actively employ

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disinformation agents to throw us off

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the scent and it makes you wonder if

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we'll ever know the truth well today's

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guest the returning champion of thc

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appearances is nick redfern the author

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and investigator very well known for his

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level-headed approach to fringe research

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and subjects like cryptozoology ufos and

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government secrets he's released two

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books since his last appearance on the

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show for nobody's eyes only missing

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government files and hidden archives to

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document the truth behind the most

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enduring conspiracy theories and close

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encounters of the fatal kind suspicious

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deaths mysterious murders and bizarre

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disappearances in ufo history we're

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about to talk about both of them today

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lots of interesting info contained

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within those pages i know i'm psyched to

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have them here the ladies love them the

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guys want to be them nick read from a

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man how the hell are you

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hey greg doing good thanks

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doing all right yeah man good it is

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great to have you back i i really enjoy

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both of these books i initially thought

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they were going to be very different but

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the commonality that i think is so

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important is that you're looking at some

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of these major ufo and conspiracy events

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with a wider scope and looking to see if

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there's been either some strange deaths

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associated with events or evidence that

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has been deleted or removed files and

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those are huge indications that there's

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more to some of these stories than the

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cover stories would suggest is that kind

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of the approach you had in mind

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yeah well

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when i'm when i'm writing any book i

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guess you want to be able to bring

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something new to the reader you know if

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they're going to go out and spend 15 on

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a book you want to be able to provide

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something new and of course people say

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well what could be said new about say

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roswell for example you know hasn't it

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already been said well it sort of

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depends on

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how you look into it how you dig into it

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and that's why with for nobody's eyes

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only instead of just doing an overview

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of the case

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i did a study the chapter in that book

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is a study of how we can prove that

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certain files on the case and certain

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files from the roswell base from that

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crucial period of 47 have gone

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and then in the the new book close

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encounters of fatal kind that deals with

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again not an overview of the case

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but a study of people who died under

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mysterious circumstances in connection

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with the case so

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that's what i always try and do whatever

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the subject is even if it's an old

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subject you try and bring something new

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and sort of worthwhile to the reader

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yeah man and you do a great job i mean

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you write more books than anyone i know

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that's why we've had you on so many

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times you've always got new material and

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it it can be challenging probably to

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find new angles but i mean you do a

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great job i'm surprised there's actually

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so much crossover and subjects between

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the two books because many of these

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topics have dead bodies and missing

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documents which is

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kind of funny yeah

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yeah and well a lot of it is i kind of

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take sort of a

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the same approach my background is sort

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of in regular journalism so i don't tend

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to sort of take the same approach

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to

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investigate in

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roswell or randallston forest or

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whatever as i would

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any kind of story you know if it was a

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local murder or you know a fraud case a

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magazine or a newspaper wanted me to

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cover that

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i would i sort of use the same

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techniques and i think if you sort of go

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looking and instead of just

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you know just relying on the internet or

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whatever and you think you know it's all

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there because well it's on the internet

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so it's obviously all there you know you

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provide you don't take that approach

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then it actually

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isn't difficult to come up with

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other information it just means you've

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got to sort of be persistent yeah i get

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that and well let's go ahead and dive

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into some of this stuff man i think

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roswell is a great place to start

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because it pops up in both books and

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you've uncovered several interesting

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side plots to the roswell saga and it

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contains a combo of strange deaths and

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missing files but let's start with the

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sexy stuff the strange deaths uh one

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that i thought was pretty interesting

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was the story of glenn davis and his

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mystery nurse can you tell us about how

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that unfolded

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yeah well there's a lot of people over

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the years have come forward with varying

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accounts in relation to what happened at

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roswell and many of them didn't come

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forward until sort of literally decades

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later i mean roswell was 47. some of

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these people didn't come forward till

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like 87 88 to 40 years after when even

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if they're only sort of mid 20s then

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they'll be sort of pushing 70 by you

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know as the 80s sort of got further and

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further along well

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one of these people was a guy named

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glenn dennis and glenn dennis was

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actually the the mortar assistant um at

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the ballard funeral home in the town of

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roswell in the summer of 47.

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and he got this weird phone call out of

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the blue from the base

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asking if he got any small caskets

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child-sized caskets and they were after

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like four or five of them and he clearly

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realized you know this isn't something

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in like a little sleepy town as it was

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back then aside from the base that's not

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the sort of thing you hear every day

276
00:10:19,509 --> 00:10:18,560
so he realized something unusual had

277
00:10:21,750 --> 00:10:19,519
happened

278
00:10:23,590 --> 00:10:21,760
and so what um

279
00:10:25,750 --> 00:10:23,600
glenn dennis did he drove out to the

280
00:10:28,150 --> 00:10:25,760
base and he said there's all sorts of

281
00:10:30,630 --> 00:10:28,160
stuff going on and people running around

282
00:10:31,430 --> 00:10:30,640
and clearly something major was going

283
00:10:33,509 --> 00:10:31,440
down

284
00:10:36,389 --> 00:10:33,519
when he was stopped and said you know

285
00:10:37,670 --> 00:10:36,399
i got a call i'm the mortar assistant

286
00:10:40,389 --> 00:10:37,680
they let him through you know they

287
00:10:41,269 --> 00:10:40,399
assumed that somebody called him to the

288
00:10:42,630 --> 00:10:41,279
base

289
00:10:44,790 --> 00:10:42,640
which actually wasn't the case he just

290
00:10:47,030 --> 00:10:44,800
gone there on his own volition so to

291
00:10:49,190 --> 00:10:47,040
speak and when he got there he met a

292
00:10:50,630 --> 00:10:49,200
nurse of his uh friend of his there was

293
00:10:53,430 --> 00:10:50,640
a nurse at the base

294
00:10:54,949 --> 00:10:53,440
and she ushered him into like one side

295
00:10:56,630 --> 00:10:54,959
and said you know you've got to get out

296
00:10:58,069 --> 00:10:56,640
and she basically

297
00:11:00,790 --> 00:10:58,079
confided in

298
00:11:02,790 --> 00:11:00,800
the bones of the story which was that

299
00:11:05,509 --> 00:11:02,800
some strange bodies had been found in

300
00:11:07,750 --> 00:11:05,519
the desert small humanoid bodies nobody

301
00:11:08,630 --> 00:11:07,760
knew what they were even where they were

302
00:11:11,509 --> 00:11:08,640
from

303
00:11:13,030 --> 00:11:11,519
all they knew was that like a large

304
00:11:15,190 --> 00:11:13,040
field of wreckage had been found and

305
00:11:16,310 --> 00:11:15,200
these small bodies and that's really all

306
00:11:18,550 --> 00:11:16,320
they knew

307
00:11:20,550 --> 00:11:18,560
so they brought the bodies in for study

308
00:11:22,389 --> 00:11:20,560
and she told glenn dennis that you know

309
00:11:24,949 --> 00:11:22,399
you got to get out of here now glenn

310
00:11:26,550 --> 00:11:24,959
dennis did tell a few friends about this

311
00:11:28,069 --> 00:11:26,560
who've since come forward

312
00:11:30,710 --> 00:11:28,079
and they've confirmed that he told them

313
00:11:33,910 --> 00:11:30,720
sort of 48-49 but then he went totally

314
00:11:36,389 --> 00:11:33,920
quiet and said nothing until 89

315
00:11:38,470 --> 00:11:36,399
and it was in 1989 that glenn dennis

316
00:11:43,269 --> 00:11:38,480
finally decided to speak out and

317
00:11:46,630 --> 00:11:43,279
confided in a couple of ufo researchers

318
00:11:49,110 --> 00:11:46,640
and what happened was that the story

319
00:11:51,430 --> 00:11:49,120
then sort of got bigger and bigger and

320
00:11:53,430 --> 00:11:51,440
glenn dennis didn't want to reveal the

321
00:11:54,870 --> 00:11:53,440
nurse's name he wanted his story out

322
00:11:56,949 --> 00:11:54,880
because he thought it was important and

323
00:11:58,150 --> 00:11:56,959
he wanted people to know how he got the

324
00:12:00,710 --> 00:11:58,160
story

325
00:12:02,710 --> 00:12:00,720
but he sort of obfuscated and

326
00:12:05,110 --> 00:12:02,720
uh sort of skirted around the edges when

327
00:12:08,230 --> 00:12:05,120
people asked for a real name but he used

328
00:12:09,110 --> 00:12:08,240
a pseudonym for it for her of her naomi

329
00:12:10,949 --> 00:12:09,120
self

330
00:12:13,110 --> 00:12:10,959
and he said well

331
00:12:15,030 --> 00:12:13,120
when people ask is that a real name you

332
00:12:16,710 --> 00:12:15,040
know he kind of said well

333
00:12:17,670 --> 00:12:16,720
it's up to you to look into it that kind

334
00:12:18,710 --> 00:12:17,680
of thing

335
00:12:21,430 --> 00:12:18,720
um

336
00:12:24,629 --> 00:12:21,440
and over the years because he didn't

337
00:12:27,030 --> 00:12:24,639
reveal the name it became hard to um to

338
00:12:29,350 --> 00:12:27,040
figure out who it was well

339
00:12:31,829 --> 00:12:29,360
the family of a woman named miriam bush

340
00:12:35,829 --> 00:12:31,839
who wasn't a nurse at the base

341
00:12:37,829 --> 00:12:35,839
um but she actually did hold a major

342
00:12:40,790 --> 00:12:37,839
medical position at the base she was

343
00:12:43,829 --> 00:12:40,800
executive secretary at the base hospital

344
00:12:46,150 --> 00:12:43,839
and she uh her family have actually gone

345
00:12:48,550 --> 00:12:46,160
on the record of stating that literally

346
00:12:50,310 --> 00:12:48,560
right days after roswell occurred she

347
00:12:52,470 --> 00:12:50,320
told her family the story about seeing

348
00:12:53,990 --> 00:12:52,480
these strange bodies and they're brought

349
00:12:55,269 --> 00:12:54,000
in and she got to see everything and

350
00:12:57,590 --> 00:12:55,279
they were sort of

351
00:12:59,750 --> 00:12:57,600
horrible and terrifying to look at

352
00:13:02,629 --> 00:12:59,760
and almost certainly

353
00:13:05,990 --> 00:13:02,639
miriam bush was naomi self the the

354
00:13:08,230 --> 00:13:06,000
pseudonym that glenn dennis created now

355
00:13:10,230 --> 00:13:08,240
it turns out that like apparently like a

356
00:13:12,230 --> 00:13:10,240
lot of the people who were on site at

357
00:13:13,590 --> 00:13:12,240
roswell and we're not just the guys who

358
00:13:15,750 --> 00:13:13,600
sort of went out days later and picked

359
00:13:18,069 --> 00:13:15,760
the wreckage up but the ones who

360
00:13:20,629 --> 00:13:18,079
really were exposed to pretty much the

361
00:13:22,629 --> 00:13:20,639
full picture like million bush she just

362
00:13:23,750 --> 00:13:22,639
sort of descended into

363
00:13:28,470 --> 00:13:23,760
like a

364
00:13:29,430 --> 00:13:28,480
psychological collapse where she had

365
00:13:31,509 --> 00:13:29,440
like a

366
00:13:33,670 --> 00:13:31,519
nervous breakdown she became very

367
00:13:35,910 --> 00:13:33,680
stressed became very paranoid and

368
00:13:37,990 --> 00:13:35,920
probably with a lot of um

369
00:13:40,310 --> 00:13:38,000
reason that she was being watched and

370
00:13:42,389 --> 00:13:40,320
followed and she descended into like

371
00:13:46,710 --> 00:13:42,399
complete alcoholism

372
00:13:49,990 --> 00:13:46,720
and by 1989 when glenn dennis surfaced

373
00:13:50,790 --> 00:13:50,000
she was in her late 60s then

374
00:13:52,949 --> 00:13:50,800
and

375
00:13:54,870 --> 00:13:52,959
she actually told her family that she

376
00:13:56,629 --> 00:13:54,880
thought someone was watching her even

377
00:13:58,710 --> 00:13:56,639
more now she didn't really elaborate on

378
00:14:00,389 --> 00:13:58,720
why but she she was sure that somebody

379
00:14:02,389 --> 00:14:00,399
was either trying to find or track it

380
00:14:03,910 --> 00:14:02,399
down as if you know they'd lost track of

381
00:14:06,150 --> 00:14:03,920
her over the years

382
00:14:08,949 --> 00:14:06,160
and that life was in danger

383
00:14:11,269 --> 00:14:08,959
well on one particular day in late 1989

384
00:14:13,750 --> 00:14:11,279
she checked into a hotel

385
00:14:15,430 --> 00:14:13,760
uh or a motel excuse me uh funnily

386
00:14:16,389 --> 00:14:15,440
enough under her sister's name and

387
00:14:17,910 --> 00:14:16,399
address

388
00:14:19,269 --> 00:14:17,920
and she was actually found the next

389
00:14:21,110 --> 00:14:19,279
morning dead

390
00:14:22,790 --> 00:14:21,120
in the hotel room with a plastic bag

391
00:14:25,829 --> 00:14:22,800
over her head and bruises on her arms

392
00:14:28,069 --> 00:14:25,839
and her family have actually spoken out

393
00:14:30,470 --> 00:14:28,079
stating that you know they felt there

394
00:14:32,550 --> 00:14:30,480
was something suspicious about this and

395
00:14:34,870 --> 00:14:32,560
what's intriguing is that she killed

396
00:14:37,430 --> 00:14:34,880
herself just before the end of 1989 or

397
00:14:39,189 --> 00:14:37,440
was always killed i should say and glenn

398
00:14:41,030 --> 00:14:39,199
dennis only went public with his story

399
00:14:42,949 --> 00:14:41,040
about three months earlier

400
00:14:44,389 --> 00:14:42,959
so in other words

401
00:14:46,629 --> 00:14:44,399
he went public with the story but not

402
00:14:48,389 --> 00:14:46,639
the name and he was right around that

403
00:14:49,990 --> 00:14:48,399
time but then she said that this sort of

404
00:14:52,550 --> 00:14:50,000
surveillance and

405
00:14:55,910 --> 00:14:52,560
angle of somebody trying to find her

406
00:14:57,110 --> 00:14:55,920
really increased big time and i think

407
00:14:58,710 --> 00:14:57,120
somebody

408
00:15:00,550 --> 00:14:58,720
knew that she was possibly one of the

409
00:15:02,389 --> 00:15:00,560
last people left who could really blow

410
00:15:04,310 --> 00:15:02,399
the lid on the whole thing

411
00:15:07,030 --> 00:15:04,320
um you know not just guys picking up

412
00:15:08,150 --> 00:15:07,040
strange wreckage in the desert where you

413
00:15:09,590 --> 00:15:08,160
know the government could say well it

414
00:15:10,870 --> 00:15:09,600
was just weather blue materials but

415
00:15:13,509 --> 00:15:10,880
somebody actually

416
00:15:15,590 --> 00:15:13,519
was a very credible person and who could

417
00:15:17,750 --> 00:15:15,600
say yes i saw the bodies and this is

418
00:15:19,509 --> 00:15:17,760
what they they were like so

419
00:15:21,910 --> 00:15:19,519
her death is sort of very very

420
00:15:23,910 --> 00:15:21,920
suspicious one yeah i would say so i

421
00:15:25,670 --> 00:15:23,920
mean she's a prime candidate she's had

422
00:15:28,150 --> 00:15:25,680
as a medical background she saw the

423
00:15:29,670 --> 00:15:28,160
bodies yeah that would be a problem for

424
00:15:33,189 --> 00:15:29,680
people who wanted to keep this stuff a

425
00:15:34,870 --> 00:15:33,199
secret but um just like her there were

426
00:15:37,030 --> 00:15:34,880
a lot of people involved that seemed to

427
00:15:38,870 --> 00:15:37,040
have long-term alcohol abuse problems

428
00:15:40,310 --> 00:15:38,880
eating disorders mental breakdowns

429
00:15:42,629 --> 00:15:40,320
seemed to be a lot of stress-induced

430
00:15:44,389 --> 00:15:42,639
people who only saw apparently a weather

431
00:15:46,230 --> 00:15:44,399
balloon right

432
00:15:47,430 --> 00:15:46,240
well yeah i mean another one of the ones

433
00:15:49,509 --> 00:15:47,440
who died

434
00:15:51,670 --> 00:15:49,519
not necessarily suspiciously in the

435
00:15:53,829 --> 00:15:51,680
sense of being murdered but just

436
00:15:55,269 --> 00:15:53,839
suspiciously basically what you said

437
00:15:57,189 --> 00:15:55,279
that if it was just a weather balloon it

438
00:15:59,749 --> 00:15:57,199
wouldn't have happened was um

439
00:16:01,910 --> 00:15:59,759
mr brancherson the rancher matt brazil

440
00:16:04,069 --> 00:16:01,920
who worked the foster ranch in lincoln

441
00:16:05,590 --> 00:16:04,079
county where the wreckage and reportedly

442
00:16:08,230 --> 00:16:05,600
the bodies was found

443
00:16:09,910 --> 00:16:08,240
um he had a son named fern brazil and at

444
00:16:11,990 --> 00:16:09,920
the time of the crash vern was only like

445
00:16:14,230 --> 00:16:12,000
eight years old but he used to help his

446
00:16:15,189 --> 00:16:14,240
dad on the ranch you know he's enjoyed

447
00:16:17,189 --> 00:16:15,199
um

448
00:16:21,030 --> 00:16:17,199
sort of going around and rounding up the

449
00:16:23,509 --> 00:16:21,040
the cattle or the sheep or whatever and

450
00:16:25,269 --> 00:16:23,519
he apparently the rumor is that

451
00:16:27,910 --> 00:16:25,279
his dad actually stumbled upon not just

452
00:16:30,870 --> 00:16:27,920
the wreckage but possibly one or more

453
00:16:33,350 --> 00:16:30,880
decomposing bodies in the desert and he

454
00:16:35,590 --> 00:16:33,360
had a major traumatic effect actually on

455
00:16:38,069 --> 00:16:35,600
both of them you know which is uh not

456
00:16:41,509 --> 00:16:38,079
surprising um

457
00:16:43,189 --> 00:16:41,519
and so the the story is that it sort of

458
00:16:45,350 --> 00:16:43,199
very psychologically affected him and

459
00:16:46,629 --> 00:16:45,360
when he became legally old enough he

460
00:16:49,430 --> 00:16:46,639
actually left

461
00:16:51,350 --> 00:16:49,440
um new mexico roswell behind him

462
00:16:53,829 --> 00:16:51,360
traveled around a little bit almost like

463
00:16:56,069 --> 00:16:53,839
in a on the road so to speak

464
00:16:57,670 --> 00:16:56,079
ended up in california and blew his

465
00:16:59,670 --> 00:16:57,680
brains out with a pistol when he was

466
00:17:01,509 --> 00:16:59,680
just like 23.

467
00:17:02,870 --> 00:17:01,519
and um

468
00:17:05,189 --> 00:17:02,880
and again but we'll probably never

469
00:17:07,350 --> 00:17:05,199
really know the full story behind

470
00:17:08,870 --> 00:17:07,360
fern but i mean he does sound like

471
00:17:12,150 --> 00:17:08,880
somebody who is sort of psychologically

472
00:17:15,189 --> 00:17:12,160
scarred another one um

473
00:17:16,150 --> 00:17:15,199
was an another person who also sort of

474
00:17:21,750 --> 00:17:16,160
um

475
00:17:24,150 --> 00:17:21,760
the whole angle of alcoholism as well

476
00:17:26,309 --> 00:17:24,160
and again this just sort of um

477
00:17:28,789 --> 00:17:26,319
demonstrates it wasn't just one person

478
00:17:30,870 --> 00:17:28,799
this was a guy named d procter who again

479
00:17:32,950 --> 00:17:30,880
was just young at the age of the at the

480
00:17:35,029 --> 00:17:32,960
time of the event and again sort of

481
00:17:38,230 --> 00:17:35,039
plunged into a state where he developed

482
00:17:41,750 --> 00:17:38,240
alcoholism and also an eating disorder

483
00:17:43,510 --> 00:17:41,760
and and died a young and tragic age and

484
00:17:46,150 --> 00:17:43,520
you know essentially became like a

485
00:17:48,070 --> 00:17:46,160
hermit refusing to talk about anything

486
00:17:50,630 --> 00:17:48,080
to do with the the crash and sort of

487
00:17:53,510 --> 00:17:50,640
lived a almost like a paranoid

488
00:17:55,350 --> 00:17:53,520
fear-filled life as well yeah there's a

489
00:17:57,110 --> 00:17:55,360
long list of those it's pretty

490
00:17:59,350 --> 00:17:57,120
compelling anecdotal evidence that

491
00:18:01,029 --> 00:17:59,360
something serious happened but another

492
00:18:02,950 --> 00:18:01,039
another aspect that shows that the

493
00:18:05,190 --> 00:18:02,960
weather balloon cover story is probably

494
00:18:07,029 --> 00:18:05,200
a bit flimsy comes from

495
00:18:09,750 --> 00:18:07,039
the book of missing files and the story

496
00:18:11,350 --> 00:18:09,760
of congressman stephen schiff who he did

497
00:18:12,630 --> 00:18:11,360
exactly what i would want to do if i was

498
00:18:14,549 --> 00:18:12,640
elected to office which is try to

499
00:18:16,390 --> 00:18:14,559
unearth some dirt on the roswell crash

500
00:18:18,150 --> 00:18:16,400
but uh tell us a little bit about his

501
00:18:20,630 --> 00:18:18,160
story and his trouble with trying to

502
00:18:23,669 --> 00:18:20,640
find the files

503
00:18:25,750 --> 00:18:23,679
yeah well sure well steven schiff um

504
00:18:28,950 --> 00:18:25,760
you make a good point there he could do

505
00:18:30,789 --> 00:18:28,960
what nobody in the ufo field can do you

506
00:18:32,950 --> 00:18:30,799
know he was a congressman he had the

507
00:18:34,789 --> 00:18:32,960
ability to open doors and

508
00:18:37,750 --> 00:18:34,799
push people and influence people and so

509
00:18:39,110 --> 00:18:37,760
on and um one of the things he did

510
00:18:41,830 --> 00:18:39,120
because he was a congressman for new

511
00:18:43,830 --> 00:18:41,840
mexico he had a lot of constituents who

512
00:18:45,750 --> 00:18:43,840
said you know my grandfather was

513
00:18:48,070 --> 00:18:45,760
involved in in this incident and was

514
00:18:49,669 --> 00:18:48,080
threatened and silenced or or even some

515
00:18:51,909 --> 00:18:49,679
of the old-timers themselves told him

516
00:18:53,750 --> 00:18:51,919
look you know this is what we saw

517
00:18:55,350 --> 00:18:53,760
um and we want to put the record

518
00:18:57,110 --> 00:18:55,360
straight because we're retired military

519
00:18:59,190 --> 00:18:57,120
people and we're you know we're ending

520
00:19:01,830 --> 00:18:59,200
up looking stupid or whatever

521
00:19:03,350 --> 00:19:01,840
and so what congressman schmidt did he

522
00:19:05,430 --> 00:19:03,360
approached what today is called the

523
00:19:07,270 --> 00:19:05,440
government accountability office but

524
00:19:08,710 --> 00:19:07,280
back in 94 was called the general

525
00:19:10,950 --> 00:19:08,720
accounting office

526
00:19:13,110 --> 00:19:10,960
and the gao is very powerful

527
00:19:14,390 --> 00:19:13,120
organization it literally has the

528
00:19:15,190 --> 00:19:14,400
ability

529
00:19:16,630 --> 00:19:15,200
to

530
00:19:18,950 --> 00:19:16,640
essentially knock on the door of any

531
00:19:20,549 --> 00:19:18,960
government agency and say we want to see

532
00:19:23,029 --> 00:19:20,559
your files on this subject or that

533
00:19:26,070 --> 00:19:23,039
subject to see if there's been proper

534
00:19:27,110 --> 00:19:26,080
rules and regulations and accountability

535
00:19:28,070 --> 00:19:27,120
followed

536
00:19:31,350 --> 00:19:28,080
and

537
00:19:34,150 --> 00:19:31,360
so what the the gao did it wasn't so

538
00:19:35,669 --> 00:19:34,160
much an investigation of the crash but

539
00:19:37,590 --> 00:19:35,679
it was more

540
00:19:40,070 --> 00:19:37,600
any files you've got you will hand over

541
00:19:41,669 --> 00:19:40,080
to us for review and we will see if

542
00:19:43,909 --> 00:19:41,679
proper rules and regulations are

543
00:19:46,630 --> 00:19:43,919
followed

544
00:19:49,510 --> 00:19:46,640
now every agency of government report

545
00:19:50,789 --> 00:19:49,520
apart from the fbi who found a one-page

546
00:19:53,110 --> 00:19:50,799
document which had been in the public

547
00:19:54,070 --> 00:19:53,120
domain for years anyway and which talked

548
00:19:57,669 --> 00:19:54,080
about

549
00:19:59,510 --> 00:19:57,679
uh the weather below theory and um

550
00:20:01,590 --> 00:19:59,520
and the idea of the story that something

551
00:20:03,350 --> 00:20:01,600
was being transferred to another base

552
00:20:06,870 --> 00:20:03,360
for study but it wasn't you know there

553
00:20:09,270 --> 00:20:06,880
was no smoking gun there um and other

554
00:20:11,830 --> 00:20:09,280
than that nothing surfaced from the fbi

555
00:20:14,230 --> 00:20:11,840
the air force cia nobody they all came

556
00:20:16,630 --> 00:20:14,240
back totally blank now the air force

557
00:20:17,909 --> 00:20:16,640
interestingly enough did make one i want

558
00:20:19,909 --> 00:20:17,919
to call it discovery because if you

559
00:20:21,350 --> 00:20:19,919
discover something you find something

560
00:20:22,390 --> 00:20:21,360
what actually happened was that they

561
00:20:24,230 --> 00:20:22,400
found

562
00:20:25,990 --> 00:20:24,240
that there was something missing

563
00:20:29,669 --> 00:20:26,000
and what was missing

564
00:20:31,990 --> 00:20:29,679
was a massive files covering the key

565
00:20:33,430 --> 00:20:32,000
period in question and also a year two

566
00:20:36,070 --> 00:20:33,440
before and after

567
00:20:38,230 --> 00:20:36,080
of all the outgoing messages

568
00:20:40,870 --> 00:20:38,240
from the roswell army air force base

569
00:20:42,230 --> 00:20:40,880
from that period are just gone and

570
00:20:44,070 --> 00:20:42,240
they're still gone to this day they

571
00:20:45,190 --> 00:20:44,080
cannot be found

572
00:20:47,750 --> 00:20:45,200
and

573
00:20:50,310 --> 00:20:47,760
on top of that um a bunch of other files

574
00:20:51,510 --> 00:20:50,320
are missing as well now

575
00:20:56,789 --> 00:20:51,520
the

576
00:20:58,630 --> 00:20:56,799
gao investigation which essentially

577
00:21:00,390 --> 00:20:58,640
turned up nothing

578
00:21:01,669 --> 00:21:00,400
the ga as the air force put out their

579
00:21:04,470 --> 00:21:01,679
own report

580
00:21:05,909 --> 00:21:04,480
and they came to the conclusion that

581
00:21:09,190 --> 00:21:05,919
what was found was something called a

582
00:21:11,110 --> 00:21:09,200
mogul balloon mogul balloons were it was

583
00:21:13,590 --> 00:21:11,120
part of a classified balloon based

584
00:21:16,149 --> 00:21:13,600
operation back then and the idea was to

585
00:21:18,870 --> 00:21:16,159
launch these huge balloon arrays which

586
00:21:20,789 --> 00:21:18,880
would monitor for early atomic bomb

587
00:21:22,070 --> 00:21:20,799
detect uh detonations by the soviet

588
00:21:24,070 --> 00:21:22,080
union in other words they go high in the

589
00:21:27,510 --> 00:21:24,080
atmosphere and they could

590
00:21:30,549 --> 00:21:27,520
monitor for like radiation atomic tests

591
00:21:33,909 --> 00:21:30,559
uh by the soviets and the air force

592
00:21:35,909 --> 00:21:33,919
concluded that is what the the roswell

593
00:21:37,990 --> 00:21:35,919
event was now

594
00:21:39,830 --> 00:21:38,000
a lot of people sort of point the finger

595
00:21:42,230 --> 00:21:39,840
at the air force and call them the bad

596
00:21:45,110 --> 00:21:42,240
guys and say they were outright lying

597
00:21:46,630 --> 00:21:45,120
about the mughal theory and also a

598
00:21:48,710 --> 00:21:46,640
second theory that the bodies were crash

599
00:21:50,789 --> 00:21:48,720
test dummies used in parachute

600
00:21:52,390 --> 00:21:50,799
experiments i kind of take a little bit

601
00:21:54,230 --> 00:21:52,400
of a different approach and this is

602
00:21:55,510 --> 00:21:54,240
something that is like a theme that runs

603
00:21:58,710 --> 00:21:55,520
through the book

604
00:22:00,789 --> 00:21:58,720
i truly don't believe that the air force

605
00:22:03,669 --> 00:22:00,799
are the bad guys when it comes to

606
00:22:06,310 --> 00:22:03,679
roswell what i think is that when the

607
00:22:08,149 --> 00:22:06,320
gao went knocking on every door the air

608
00:22:09,430 --> 00:22:08,159
force felt because it was it would we

609
00:22:11,270 --> 00:22:09,440
know it was the air force that handled

610
00:22:13,990 --> 00:22:11,280
the case back in the 40s they felt the

611
00:22:14,870 --> 00:22:14,000
onus and responsibility was on them

612
00:22:18,149 --> 00:22:14,880
to

613
00:22:19,190 --> 00:22:18,159
should know the air force should

614
00:22:20,710 --> 00:22:19,200
now

615
00:22:22,710 --> 00:22:20,720
when the air force went looking and

616
00:22:23,830 --> 00:22:22,720
couldn't find anything

617
00:22:25,669 --> 00:22:23,840
i still think they felt the

618
00:22:27,590 --> 00:22:25,679
responsibility was on them to at least

619
00:22:29,430 --> 00:22:27,600
try and come up with that explanation

620
00:22:31,430 --> 00:22:29,440
and i think that's why they came up with

621
00:22:33,750 --> 00:22:31,440
the mughal balloon one because from

622
00:22:35,270 --> 00:22:33,760
their perspective it fitted at least

623
00:22:36,789 --> 00:22:35,280
some of the facts

624
00:22:39,590 --> 00:22:36,799
now i think there's enough data to

625
00:22:41,590 --> 00:22:39,600
suggest it wasn't a mogul balloon but

626
00:22:42,789 --> 00:22:41,600
some researchers then

627
00:22:45,430 --> 00:22:42,799
you know they're like our way to the big

628
00:22:47,430 --> 00:22:45,440
bad air force line to us what i think

629
00:22:50,390 --> 00:22:47,440
is that probably at some point in the

630
00:22:51,270 --> 00:22:50,400
50s or 60s but certainly no later the

631
00:22:54,070 --> 00:22:51,280
whole

632
00:22:55,750 --> 00:22:54,080
the sort of the really deep ufo program

633
00:22:56,950 --> 00:22:55,760
was sort of taken out the hands of

634
00:22:58,870 --> 00:22:56,960
governments in the military it was

635
00:23:00,149 --> 00:22:58,880
handed over to

636
00:23:02,789 --> 00:23:00,159
very powerful sort of private

637
00:23:05,430 --> 00:23:02,799
corporations with multinational links

638
00:23:07,350 --> 00:23:05,440
and old money and power players

639
00:23:09,190 --> 00:23:07,360
and you know that's that's not to say

640
00:23:11,029 --> 00:23:09,200
they're hiding underground they're also

641
00:23:12,390 --> 00:23:11,039
hiding in plain sight but

642
00:23:15,029 --> 00:23:12,400
but i think

643
00:23:17,029 --> 00:23:15,039
that today's air force probably may not

644
00:23:18,870 --> 00:23:17,039
know hardly any more than we do about

645
00:23:20,950 --> 00:23:18,880
roswell they may have suspicions and

646
00:23:22,630 --> 00:23:20,960
fragments of stories but i don't think

647
00:23:24,149 --> 00:23:22,640
they're the bad guys hiding from

648
00:23:26,789 --> 00:23:24,159
schmidt's congressman schmidt what

649
00:23:28,789 --> 00:23:26,799
happened i think they went looking

650
00:23:30,630 --> 00:23:28,799
found nothing and we have to remember it

651
00:23:32,149 --> 00:23:30,640
was the air force who pointed out that

652
00:23:33,350 --> 00:23:32,159
all the records had gone i think if they

653
00:23:34,789 --> 00:23:33,360
were the ones

654
00:23:36,950 --> 00:23:34,799
engaged in the conspiracy they would

655
00:23:38,630 --> 00:23:36,960
hardly have said well the records have

656
00:23:40,310 --> 00:23:38,640
vanished you know that just makes it

657
00:23:41,190 --> 00:23:40,320
look even more suspicious so i think

658
00:23:43,029 --> 00:23:41,200
that

659
00:23:45,350 --> 00:23:43,039
i think we've got like a shadow

660
00:23:48,070 --> 00:23:45,360
government or a shadow agency that is

661
00:23:50,070 --> 00:23:48,080
overseeing all this and the people we

662
00:23:51,990 --> 00:23:50,080
assume are hiding the truth like the

663
00:23:54,230 --> 00:23:52,000
pentagon the air force you know they

664
00:23:56,549 --> 00:23:54,240
could be sitting now on a lunch break a

665
00:23:58,950 --> 00:23:56,559
coffee break at the pentagon saying

666
00:24:00,630 --> 00:23:58,960
yeah we really don't know what happened

667
00:24:02,149 --> 00:24:00,640
but everybody thinks we do and i think

668
00:24:03,190 --> 00:24:02,159
that's how the secret's being kept

669
00:24:04,710 --> 00:24:03,200
because

670
00:24:07,590 --> 00:24:04,720
the governments aren't the bad guys the

671
00:24:09,669 --> 00:24:07,600
air force aren't the cia isn't it's it

672
00:24:12,549 --> 00:24:09,679
is really this sort of shadow

673
00:24:14,870 --> 00:24:12,559
group that operates outside the law

674
00:24:16,950 --> 00:24:14,880
outside of congressional oversight there

675
00:24:18,950 --> 00:24:16,960
isn't really a part of government it's

676
00:24:21,669 --> 00:24:18,960
it really is like its own

677
00:24:23,909 --> 00:24:21,679
unique entity but the difficult thing is

678
00:24:26,630 --> 00:24:23,919
the concept of wrapping your head around

679
00:24:28,390 --> 00:24:26,640
that scenario that how could that happen

680
00:24:30,310 --> 00:24:28,400
that there could be a government

681
00:24:32,630 --> 00:24:30,320
within or without a government but i

682
00:24:33,909 --> 00:24:32,640
think that's really what there is oh i

683
00:24:35,669 --> 00:24:33,919
think there's plenty of evidence to

684
00:24:37,430 --> 00:24:35,679
suggest that there is a group that is

685
00:24:40,070 --> 00:24:37,440
just designed to be cleaners of these

686
00:24:42,870 --> 00:24:40,080
type of activities i mean uh men in

687
00:24:44,470 --> 00:24:42,880
black seem to be a part of this but yeah

688
00:24:48,549 --> 00:24:44,480
there seems to be quite a bit of

689
00:24:51,510 --> 00:24:48,559
evidence that if if not sectors of these

690
00:24:54,870 --> 00:24:51,520
military uh or alphabet agencies then

691
00:24:56,870 --> 00:24:54,880
maybe there's a separate one that just

692
00:24:58,390 --> 00:24:56,880
cleans up all the messes as they happen

693
00:25:00,549 --> 00:24:58,400
globally

694
00:25:02,310 --> 00:25:00,559
yeah and i think also that it's not just

695
00:25:05,190 --> 00:25:02,320
that there's a shadow agency that cleans

696
00:25:08,310 --> 00:25:05,200
up things but i think you know people

697
00:25:10,549 --> 00:25:08,320
if you look back to the 40s and 50s um

698
00:25:12,870 --> 00:25:10,559
we have a lot of reports about alien

699
00:25:15,269 --> 00:25:12,880
bodies being seen by military personnel

700
00:25:17,110 --> 00:25:15,279
in sort of like cryogenic storage or in

701
00:25:18,950 --> 00:25:17,120
formaldehyde or something like that

702
00:25:21,110 --> 00:25:18,960
preserved and stored away

703
00:25:22,549 --> 00:25:21,120
those stories kind of tail off

704
00:25:23,750 --> 00:25:22,559
interestingly enough for the for the

705
00:25:25,990 --> 00:25:23,760
most part

706
00:25:28,470 --> 00:25:26,000
by the time the 70s came around

707
00:25:30,470 --> 00:25:28,480
and so again that's why i think we're

708
00:25:31,510 --> 00:25:30,480
dealing with like a shadow group

709
00:25:33,510 --> 00:25:31,520
you know i don't think it's a

710
00:25:35,430 --> 00:25:33,520
coincidence that a lot of most of those

711
00:25:37,430 --> 00:25:35,440
reports have tailed off and nobody

712
00:25:38,870 --> 00:25:37,440
really sees those bodies again like

713
00:25:40,789 --> 00:25:38,880
wright-patterson

714
00:25:42,390 --> 00:25:40,799
which is one the main main place in the

715
00:25:44,950 --> 00:25:42,400
40s and 50s where

716
00:25:46,950 --> 00:25:44,960
you know a lot of people came forward um

717
00:25:48,870 --> 00:25:46,960
so that's why i think their bodies and

718
00:25:50,070 --> 00:25:48,880
so on and the wreckage are probably held

719
00:25:52,470 --> 00:25:50,080
by

720
00:25:54,549 --> 00:25:52,480
you know very powerful corporations and

721
00:25:56,870 --> 00:25:54,559
industries that do

722
00:25:59,110 --> 00:25:56,880
sort of defense contract work

723
00:26:01,510 --> 00:25:59,120
you know developing new aircraft systems

724
00:26:04,070 --> 00:26:01,520
weapon systems and i think i really

725
00:26:06,630 --> 00:26:04,080
think it's been farmed out to them you

726
00:26:08,549 --> 00:26:06,640
know i don't think there are like

727
00:26:10,549 --> 00:26:08,559
four mile the high bodies of aliens

728
00:26:13,190 --> 00:26:10,559
preserved under the pentagon but if you

729
00:26:15,190 --> 00:26:13,200
ask me a private corporation that

730
00:26:18,870 --> 00:26:15,200
develops new

731
00:26:21,510 --> 00:26:18,880
um propulsion systems for spacecraft or

732
00:26:23,510 --> 00:26:21,520
that does viral research and biological

733
00:26:25,029 --> 00:26:23,520
research that's probably where the

734
00:26:26,070 --> 00:26:25,039
bodies are held today and again that's

735
00:26:28,070 --> 00:26:26,080
why

736
00:26:29,750 --> 00:26:28,080
we don't find them because

737
00:26:31,590 --> 00:26:29,760
they're no longer held at the military

738
00:26:32,390 --> 00:26:31,600
bases or whatever again it's some sort

739
00:26:35,350 --> 00:26:32,400
of

740
00:26:38,149 --> 00:26:35,360
um

741
00:26:40,070 --> 00:26:38,159
secret agency outside of government with

742
00:26:41,510 --> 00:26:40,080
but with networks and links all around

743
00:26:43,830 --> 00:26:41,520
the planet but

744
00:26:46,230 --> 00:26:43,840
that is so powerful it is it is like a

745
00:26:48,390 --> 00:26:46,240
government but it's not viewable in

746
00:26:50,549 --> 00:26:48,400
plain sight if you like yeah i think

747
00:26:53,190 --> 00:26:50,559
that makes a lot more sense too and you

748
00:26:55,510 --> 00:26:53,200
also write a little bit about

749
00:26:57,590 --> 00:26:55,520
uh missing documents pertaining to

750
00:26:59,990 --> 00:26:57,600
philip corso who is a pretty explosive

751
00:27:01,750 --> 00:27:00,000
roswell whistleblower for the people who

752
00:27:03,830 --> 00:27:01,760
might need a refresher remind us of his

753
00:27:05,830 --> 00:27:03,840
story and what you found interesting

754
00:27:07,350 --> 00:27:05,840
about his fbi files before they were

755
00:27:08,710 --> 00:27:07,360
suspiciously omitted from the new

756
00:27:09,750 --> 00:27:08,720
archive

757
00:27:11,830 --> 00:27:09,760
yeah well

758
00:27:13,750 --> 00:27:11,840
uh lieutenant colonel felix

759
00:27:15,029 --> 00:27:13,760
corso or i should say american

760
00:27:17,510 --> 00:27:15,039
lieutenant

761
00:27:20,630 --> 00:27:17,520
that was my english accent man

762
00:27:22,549 --> 00:27:20,640
but lieutenant uh philip corso

763
00:27:24,950 --> 00:27:22,559
was the author of the book with bill

764
00:27:27,110 --> 00:27:24,960
burns of the day after roswell

765
00:27:29,510 --> 00:27:27,120
and corsair had a very controversial

766
00:27:33,029 --> 00:27:29,520
story he claimed that he was involved in

767
00:27:35,350 --> 00:27:33,039
a program to essentially seed the alien

768
00:27:37,190 --> 00:27:35,360
technology from roswell into the u.s

769
00:27:39,590 --> 00:27:37,200
science technological and defense

770
00:27:42,149 --> 00:27:39,600
industries to try and further the u.s

771
00:27:44,070 --> 00:27:42,159
military's technological power you know

772
00:27:45,909 --> 00:27:44,080
if you could introduce alien technology

773
00:27:47,510 --> 00:27:45,919
and we could understand it

774
00:27:49,510 --> 00:27:47,520
that would give you a key major

775
00:27:51,029 --> 00:27:49,520
kickstart on everybody else on the

776
00:27:52,230 --> 00:27:51,039
planet so that was basically the theme

777
00:27:54,710 --> 00:27:52,240
of the book and

778
00:27:57,269 --> 00:27:54,720
you know it must be said as i point out

779
00:27:58,710 --> 00:27:57,279
in in my book and for nobody's eyes only

780
00:28:00,950 --> 00:27:58,720
that um

781
00:28:02,950 --> 00:28:00,960
there are people who support corso's

782
00:28:05,430 --> 00:28:02,960
story just as as much as there are

783
00:28:07,669 --> 00:28:05,440
people who don't support it and and it's

784
00:28:09,510 --> 00:28:07,679
one of these that sort of polarized the

785
00:28:11,029 --> 00:28:09,520
field of ufo research but what's

786
00:28:11,909 --> 00:28:11,039
interesting is that

787
00:28:15,029 --> 00:28:11,919
um

788
00:28:17,430 --> 00:28:15,039
there's an fbi file on corso

789
00:28:20,630 --> 00:28:17,440
and the fbi loaded it up to their

790
00:28:22,230 --> 00:28:20,640
website um something like about ten

791
00:28:24,310 --> 00:28:22,240
seven eight years ago something like

792
00:28:26,230 --> 00:28:24,320
that and uh it gives a lot of background

793
00:28:28,630 --> 00:28:26,240
on what hoover thought about

794
00:28:30,870 --> 00:28:28,640
uh corso and his military background and

795
00:28:32,870 --> 00:28:30,880
things like this now just a couple of

796
00:28:35,350 --> 00:28:32,880
years later um

797
00:28:37,269 --> 00:28:35,360
the fbi created a new website called the

798
00:28:39,029 --> 00:28:37,279
vault which is a really good

799
00:28:40,389 --> 00:28:39,039
website which i recommend to anyone

800
00:28:43,669 --> 00:28:40,399
that's interested

801
00:28:45,510 --> 00:28:43,679
in the history of the fbi's involvement

802
00:28:49,190 --> 00:28:45,520
in all manner of things you can find

803
00:28:51,750 --> 00:28:49,200
files on for example the early

804
00:28:53,110 --> 00:28:51,760
years of gangsters like bonnie and clyde

805
00:28:55,909 --> 00:28:53,120
and

806
00:28:57,510 --> 00:28:55,919
operations to arrest german spies in the

807
00:28:59,269 --> 00:28:57,520
second world war and

808
00:29:01,430 --> 00:28:59,279
and soviet spies at the height of the

809
00:29:04,710 --> 00:29:01,440
cold war and it's a really it's a really

810
00:29:06,870 --> 00:29:04,720
fascinating um website very historical

811
00:29:09,190 --> 00:29:06,880
and you know the fbi did a great job of

812
00:29:11,909 --> 00:29:09,200
uploading all these files in pdf format

813
00:29:14,389 --> 00:29:11,919
and you can download them all for free

814
00:29:17,830 --> 00:29:14,399
but what's interesting and intriguing is

815
00:29:20,470 --> 00:29:17,840
that when there was this transfer from

816
00:29:22,389 --> 00:29:20,480
the old website to the new one yes a lot

817
00:29:24,710 --> 00:29:22,399
of the files got transferred but a

818
00:29:27,110 --> 00:29:24,720
number of files interesting enough on

819
00:29:28,950 --> 00:29:27,120
people in the ufo subject didn't get

820
00:29:31,750 --> 00:29:28,960
transferred um

821
00:29:34,230 --> 00:29:31,760
for example we if we have a course house

822
00:29:35,430 --> 00:29:34,240
file you can still get it but for some

823
00:29:37,669 --> 00:29:35,440
weird reason

824
00:29:38,950 --> 00:29:37,679
he didn't make the transfer from website

825
00:29:41,990 --> 00:29:38,960
to website

826
00:29:43,110 --> 00:29:42,000
when so nearly like 97 98 percent of the

827
00:29:44,710 --> 00:29:43,120
others did

828
00:29:46,789 --> 00:29:44,720
another person who was heavily involved

829
00:29:47,590 --> 00:29:46,799
in ufology and whose file didn't make

830
00:29:48,950 --> 00:29:47,600
the

831
00:29:50,230 --> 00:29:48,960
transfer

832
00:29:52,230 --> 00:29:50,240
with somebody

833
00:29:53,269 --> 00:29:52,240
who i guess more than anything else has

834
00:29:55,750 --> 00:29:53,279
been come

835
00:29:58,470 --> 00:29:55,760
and known for his research into the uh

836
00:29:59,909 --> 00:29:58,480
field of cloud busting as it's known now

837
00:30:04,310 --> 00:29:59,919
cloud busting

838
00:30:06,470 --> 00:30:04,320
um essentially is the ability to affect

839
00:30:08,470 --> 00:30:06,480
the weather and change the weather and

840
00:30:11,190 --> 00:30:08,480
certainly the one person more than any

841
00:30:13,669 --> 00:30:11,200
other was i guess a leading early

842
00:30:17,269 --> 00:30:13,679
proponent and pioneer in this field was

843
00:30:19,190 --> 00:30:17,279
dr wilhelm reich now reich um had an

844
00:30:21,669 --> 00:30:19,200
extensive fbi file it runs to like

845
00:30:22,630 --> 00:30:21,679
nearly a thousand pages and that was on

846
00:30:25,110 --> 00:30:22,640
file

847
00:30:28,149 --> 00:30:25,120
um at the old website but that didn't

848
00:30:30,870 --> 00:30:28,159
make it to the new one either and um

849
00:30:33,669 --> 00:30:30,880
reich was someone who also was heavily

850
00:30:35,590 --> 00:30:33,679
involved in studying the ufo phenomenon

851
00:30:37,590 --> 00:30:35,600
so you know there are a couple of cases

852
00:30:38,710 --> 00:30:37,600
like that where files

853
00:30:40,710 --> 00:30:38,720
we can still get them through the

854
00:30:42,149 --> 00:30:40,720
freedom information they're not denied

855
00:30:45,190 --> 00:30:42,159
it's just they're not

856
00:30:47,190 --> 00:30:45,200
profiled online anymore which you know

857
00:30:49,590 --> 00:30:47,200
obviously makes makes it difficult for a

858
00:30:51,669 --> 00:30:49,600
lot of people to know they even exist

859
00:30:53,510 --> 00:30:51,679
yeah reich is an interesting guy he

860
00:30:56,310 --> 00:30:53,520
actually from what i understand thought

861
00:30:58,389 --> 00:30:56,320
that cloudbuster gun could also fight

862
00:30:59,350 --> 00:30:58,399
ufos and he thought that the good and

863
00:31:01,029 --> 00:30:59,360
bad

864
00:31:02,950 --> 00:31:01,039
entities had different propulsion

865
00:31:05,029 --> 00:31:02,960
systems something like that

866
00:31:07,430 --> 00:31:05,039
yeah well wilhelm wright was a very sort

867
00:31:09,590 --> 00:31:07,440
of fascinating character a fringe

868
00:31:11,830 --> 00:31:09,600
scientist who was very much

869
00:31:14,230 --> 00:31:11,840
ahead of his time he felt number one

870
00:31:16,549 --> 00:31:14,240
that the weather could be manipulated um

871
00:31:18,630 --> 00:31:16,559
he created these technologies called

872
00:31:20,310 --> 00:31:18,640
cloudbusters which essentially

873
00:31:21,590 --> 00:31:20,320
could alter the weather

874
00:31:23,830 --> 00:31:21,600
but he also

875
00:31:26,950 --> 00:31:23,840
had a fascination with something that he

876
00:31:29,510 --> 00:31:26,960
called orgone energy and he believed

877
00:31:30,470 --> 00:31:29,520
that orgone energy was sort of like the

878
00:31:33,350 --> 00:31:30,480
the

879
00:31:34,950 --> 00:31:33,360
primordial life force energy that

880
00:31:37,830 --> 00:31:34,960
essentially was the engine behind the

881
00:31:40,310 --> 00:31:37,840
entire universe and everything in it and

882
00:31:43,110 --> 00:31:40,320
he believed that this energy was being

883
00:31:45,750 --> 00:31:43,120
sort of adapted and used by

884
00:31:46,389 --> 00:31:45,760
what he called uh well essentially good

885
00:31:49,669 --> 00:31:46,399
and

886
00:31:50,950 --> 00:31:49,679
bad ufo entities um

887
00:31:53,590 --> 00:31:50,960
in other words

888
00:31:55,909 --> 00:31:53,600
energy that could be utilized as a power

889
00:31:59,269 --> 00:31:55,919
source as a weapon

890
00:32:01,750 --> 00:31:59,279
as an energy and he felt that this one

891
00:32:03,509 --> 00:32:01,760
particular form of orgo and energy sort

892
00:32:05,269 --> 00:32:03,519
of the positive one couldn't be used

893
00:32:07,830 --> 00:32:05,279
against these negative entities and he

894
00:32:10,070 --> 00:32:07,840
claimed that on a number of occasions he

895
00:32:11,590 --> 00:32:10,080
literally kind of

896
00:32:13,509 --> 00:32:11,600
entered into like a war of the world

897
00:32:15,590 --> 00:32:13,519
scenario where he would he would be able

898
00:32:17,909 --> 00:32:15,600
to tell where ufos were in the skies of

899
00:32:20,549 --> 00:32:17,919
like the southwest desert areas and he

900
00:32:22,789 --> 00:32:20,559
could blast them with this positive

901
00:32:24,710 --> 00:32:22,799
orgone energy you know almost like i

902
00:32:25,990 --> 00:32:24,720
said like h.g wells war of the worlds

903
00:32:28,710 --> 00:32:26,000
and um

904
00:32:31,909 --> 00:32:28,720
but he died in prison um sort of a

905
00:32:34,389 --> 00:32:31,919
broken man and um all his scientific

906
00:32:35,990 --> 00:32:34,399
papers were destroyed and um a very

907
00:32:36,950 --> 00:32:36,000
weird story

908
00:32:40,149 --> 00:32:36,960
yeah

909
00:32:42,230 --> 00:32:40,159
it sounds so odd but for a guy who is a

910
00:32:44,470 --> 00:32:42,240
player at that level i mean obviously he

911
00:32:46,950 --> 00:32:44,480
was a smart intelligent man i mean who

912
00:32:49,110 --> 00:32:46,960
am i to say that that he can't do this

913
00:32:50,789 --> 00:32:49,120
kind of stuff with that argon energy you

914
00:32:52,870 --> 00:32:50,799
know it's it's kind of crazy but he also

915
00:32:54,630 --> 00:32:52,880
felt like he was set up was what put him

916
00:32:57,269 --> 00:32:54,640
in prison right

917
00:32:59,269 --> 00:32:57,279
well yeah i mean the the thing is with

918
00:33:02,310 --> 00:32:59,279
right um as i said there were a lot of

919
00:33:04,549 --> 00:33:02,320
weird aspects to his story now one of

920
00:33:05,590 --> 00:33:04,559
the i guess one of the strangest ones of

921
00:33:06,470 --> 00:33:05,600
all

922
00:33:11,830 --> 00:33:06,480
was

923
00:33:14,230 --> 00:33:11,840
put him in prison and he sort of i won't

924
00:33:16,149 --> 00:33:14,240
say it's totally unique because it

925
00:33:19,110 --> 00:33:16,159
wasn't totally unique but it was one of

926
00:33:22,789 --> 00:33:19,120
these situations where it sort of did

927
00:33:25,909 --> 00:33:22,799
um raise eyebrows now what happened was

928
00:33:28,389 --> 00:33:25,919
that he was essentially jailed for

929
00:33:31,350 --> 00:33:28,399
refusing to come to court or to go to

930
00:33:33,830 --> 00:33:31,360
court on what were called interstate

931
00:33:34,950 --> 00:33:33,840
commerce and fraud charges

932
00:33:37,590 --> 00:33:34,960
basically

933
00:33:40,630 --> 00:33:37,600
all he was doing was traveling across

934
00:33:42,549 --> 00:33:40,640
state lines with his technology in the

935
00:33:44,230 --> 00:33:42,559
back of his big truck

936
00:33:45,269 --> 00:33:44,240
but because he sold

937
00:33:47,269 --> 00:33:45,279
um

938
00:33:49,029 --> 00:33:47,279
this technology or technologies to

939
00:33:50,549 --> 00:33:49,039
people who may want to buy it and that

940
00:33:53,029 --> 00:33:50,559
included his books

941
00:33:55,990 --> 00:33:53,039
that was perceived as interstate

942
00:33:57,750 --> 00:33:56,000
commerce and um you know that

943
00:34:00,310 --> 00:33:57,760
fraud charges and the reason for the

944
00:34:03,269 --> 00:34:00,320
fraud angle was because

945
00:34:05,909 --> 00:34:03,279
officially it was disputed that his

946
00:34:08,470 --> 00:34:05,919
ideas had any validity to them so in

947
00:34:10,389 --> 00:34:08,480
other words denying that validity that

948
00:34:11,669 --> 00:34:10,399
was perceived as fraud you know he was

949
00:34:12,550 --> 00:34:11,679
writing books

950
00:34:14,230 --> 00:34:12,560
and

951
00:34:15,829 --> 00:34:14,240
because the scenario was well there's

952
00:34:17,430 --> 00:34:15,839
nothing to this then he's going to be

953
00:34:19,669 --> 00:34:17,440
fraud and then when he's traveling

954
00:34:21,430 --> 00:34:19,679
across state lines that's when you have

955
00:34:22,629 --> 00:34:21,440
this other angle coming

956
00:34:25,349 --> 00:34:22,639
so

957
00:34:27,990 --> 00:34:25,359
you know that in itself is what got him

958
00:34:30,230 --> 00:34:28,000
uh in trouble and then admittedly part

959
00:34:31,190 --> 00:34:30,240
of it was his own fault by refusing to

960
00:34:33,829 --> 00:34:31,200
actually

961
00:34:36,470 --> 00:34:33,839
um you know attend the the hearing and

962
00:34:38,869 --> 00:34:36,480
so on and then so he got arrested and

963
00:34:41,510 --> 00:34:38,879
ended up in jail and so part of his

964
00:34:44,230 --> 00:34:41,520
sentence was the fact that he refused

965
00:34:46,310 --> 00:34:44,240
you know to come to court but i mean you

966
00:34:48,149 --> 00:34:46,320
could make the analogy i mean let's say

967
00:34:50,869 --> 00:34:48,159
hypothetically somebody wrote a book

968
00:34:53,190 --> 00:34:50,879
tomorrow um like corso you know let's

969
00:34:54,389 --> 00:34:53,200
say another corso comes along and writes

970
00:34:56,790 --> 00:34:54,399
a book saying

971
00:34:58,870 --> 00:34:56,800
i was a biologist and i was involved in

972
00:35:01,109 --> 00:34:58,880
autopsy in the you know the roswell

973
00:35:02,470 --> 00:35:01,119
aliens well let's say that old guy went

974
00:35:04,870 --> 00:35:02,480
on a tour

975
00:35:07,109 --> 00:35:04,880
us

976
00:35:09,190 --> 00:35:07,119
and somebody came up with valid reasons

977
00:35:11,030 --> 00:35:09,200
they thought why he was lying you know

978
00:35:12,710 --> 00:35:11,040
you somebody could then make the claim

979
00:35:14,790 --> 00:35:12,720
all this books fraud

980
00:35:16,950 --> 00:35:14,800
and he's peddling it across state lines

981
00:35:18,710 --> 00:35:16,960
and so on you see what i mean

982
00:35:21,190 --> 00:35:18,720
that is essentially all that really

983
00:35:23,270 --> 00:35:21,200
happened with right you know it wasn't

984
00:35:25,109 --> 00:35:23,280
like he was robbing banks or anything

985
00:35:26,950 --> 00:35:25,119
well you got to go to court man i mean

986
00:35:28,470 --> 00:35:26,960
if i learned anything i almost had my

987
00:35:30,230 --> 00:35:28,480
life ruined because i didn't go to court

988
00:35:32,550 --> 00:35:30,240
for a couple of speeding tickets you

989
00:35:34,790 --> 00:35:32,560
gotta go to court yeah that that was

990
00:35:36,710 --> 00:35:34,800
that was his downfall but the problem

991
00:35:38,230 --> 00:35:36,720
was it wasn't like he was just like you

992
00:35:40,630 --> 00:35:38,240
said i mean you know a speeding ticket

993
00:35:41,990 --> 00:35:40,640
or one that's bad enough you know if you

994
00:35:43,670 --> 00:35:42,000
don't want to

995
00:35:45,670 --> 00:35:43,680
not go to court and then end up with

996
00:35:47,910 --> 00:35:45,680
even bigger problems from a smaller one

997
00:35:50,150 --> 00:35:47,920
but that was one of made rike's major

998
00:35:51,670 --> 00:35:50,160
problems and because it was a problem

999
00:35:54,390 --> 00:35:51,680
and then he had these other things

1000
00:35:56,870 --> 00:35:54,400
interstate fraud charges which isn't you

1001
00:35:58,390 --> 00:35:56,880
know is isn't like just jumping a red

1002
00:36:00,310 --> 00:35:58,400
light or whatever

1003
00:36:03,270 --> 00:36:00,320
that sort of really

1004
00:36:05,270 --> 00:36:03,280
just amplified the trouble he was in

1005
00:36:06,630 --> 00:36:05,280
yeah you just can't ignore the chords

1006
00:36:08,710 --> 00:36:06,640
unless of course you're someone like

1007
00:36:11,109 --> 00:36:08,720
dick cheney then you can just uh ignore

1008
00:36:12,790 --> 00:36:11,119
anything that comes your way another

1009
00:36:14,310 --> 00:36:12,800
thing that's interesting about prominent

1010
00:36:16,230 --> 00:36:14,320
people who have

1011
00:36:18,550 --> 00:36:16,240
huge chunks of files missing where there

1012
00:36:20,630 --> 00:36:18,560
should be some information on them uh

1013
00:36:22,790 --> 00:36:20,640
there was a pretty important document

1014
00:36:24,630 --> 00:36:22,800
that went missing of marilyn monroe i

1015
00:36:26,790 --> 00:36:24,640
mean she she apparently had a lot of

1016
00:36:29,349 --> 00:36:26,800
secrets and she had a diary that no one

1017
00:36:32,390 --> 00:36:29,359
seems to be able to find now right

1018
00:36:33,270 --> 00:36:32,400
yeah well marilyn monroe um

1019
00:36:36,310 --> 00:36:33,280
you know

1020
00:36:37,190 --> 00:36:36,320
died in 1962 when she was only 36

1021
00:36:39,270 --> 00:36:37,200
and

1022
00:36:42,230 --> 00:36:39,280
i guess from her movie she kind of has

1023
00:36:44,550 --> 00:36:42,240
this reputation as you know sort of this

1024
00:36:46,630 --> 00:36:44,560
dizzy-headed blonde and didn't really

1025
00:36:47,670 --> 00:36:46,640
know much you know and so which is

1026
00:36:49,430 --> 00:36:47,680
actually

1027
00:36:52,069 --> 00:36:49,440
totally wrong that that's sort of the

1028
00:36:54,310 --> 00:36:52,079
person that he suggests me the um

1029
00:36:56,550 --> 00:36:54,320
sort of the you know the image that's

1030
00:36:58,550 --> 00:36:56,560
that in the public domain of her but the

1031
00:37:01,190 --> 00:36:58,560
reality is that she was a very

1032
00:37:04,790 --> 00:37:01,200
clever woman she was uh she was used to

1033
00:37:07,670 --> 00:37:04,800
read extensively and in 1955

1034
00:37:10,230 --> 00:37:07,680
she actually applied for a visa to visit

1035
00:37:12,710 --> 00:37:10,240
what then was the soviet union because

1036
00:37:14,470 --> 00:37:12,720
she was interested in it and she wanted

1037
00:37:16,550 --> 00:37:14,480
to know what it was really like versus

1038
00:37:18,550 --> 00:37:16,560
what people said it was like this

1039
00:37:20,710 --> 00:37:18,560
actually raised eyebrows with j edgar

1040
00:37:23,829 --> 00:37:20,720
hoover and it was one of the reasons why

1041
00:37:27,109 --> 00:37:23,839
her file was opened um

1042
00:37:28,550 --> 00:37:27,119
but because she she made this um request

1043
00:37:30,069 --> 00:37:28,560
to see if she could go to the soviet

1044
00:37:31,349 --> 00:37:30,079
union of course she was already a famous

1045
00:37:33,030 --> 00:37:31,359
actress so that

1046
00:37:35,270 --> 00:37:33,040
would have sort of raised eyebrows even

1047
00:37:37,510 --> 00:37:35,280
more now

1048
00:37:38,870 --> 00:37:37,520
as one of the things i talk about in the

1049
00:37:40,390 --> 00:37:38,880
book i mean there are many aspects to

1050
00:37:43,829 --> 00:37:40,400
her life and death that are sort of all

1051
00:37:45,430 --> 00:37:43,839
filled with intrigue but we know that at

1052
00:37:47,430 --> 00:37:45,440
certain points we don't even know the

1053
00:37:49,109 --> 00:37:47,440
sort of the four years or the full story

1054
00:37:51,750 --> 00:37:49,119
probably never will but she certainly

1055
00:37:53,670 --> 00:37:51,760
had an affairs or relationships have you

1056
00:37:56,230 --> 00:37:53,680
on a tournament with both president

1057
00:37:59,030 --> 00:37:56,240
kennedy and his brother robert kennedy

1058
00:38:01,109 --> 00:37:59,040
and one of the things that they actually

1059
00:38:02,710 --> 00:38:01,119
didn't know she did but she kept a lot

1060
00:38:04,950 --> 00:38:02,720
of journals you know a lot of people

1061
00:38:06,550 --> 00:38:04,960
write journals and she did that as well

1062
00:38:08,870 --> 00:38:06,560
but she also had this other one which

1063
00:38:11,510 --> 00:38:08,880
was called became known as a red book

1064
00:38:14,069 --> 00:38:11,520
and the red book was contained contained

1065
00:38:15,829 --> 00:38:14,079
all the stuff that the kennedys told her

1066
00:38:17,510 --> 00:38:15,839
and people surrounding the kennedys who

1067
00:38:18,550 --> 00:38:17,520
she might have met at parties and things

1068
00:38:21,190 --> 00:38:18,560
like that

1069
00:38:24,230 --> 00:38:21,200
and reportedly it was filled with sort

1070
00:38:26,550 --> 00:38:24,240
of a sort of sensational top secrets

1071
00:38:28,550 --> 00:38:26,560
that kennedy essentially told us to try

1072
00:38:30,390 --> 00:38:28,560
and lure into the bedroom i guess you

1073
00:38:33,349 --> 00:38:30,400
know impress her with how would you like

1074
00:38:35,030 --> 00:38:33,359
to hear this you know and um

1075
00:38:37,270 --> 00:38:35,040
and it sort of related to things like

1076
00:38:38,470 --> 00:38:37,280
plans to invite cuba and assassinate

1077
00:38:39,829 --> 00:38:38,480
castro

1078
00:38:41,750 --> 00:38:39,839
uh invade

1079
00:38:43,670 --> 00:38:41,760
sort of the relationship with the soviet

1080
00:38:45,030 --> 00:38:43,680
union and how things were going with

1081
00:38:48,069 --> 00:38:45,040
them and

1082
00:38:51,190 --> 00:38:48,079
space missions all sorts of stuff and

1083
00:38:54,550 --> 00:38:51,200
there is um a story that supposedly

1084
00:38:55,750 --> 00:38:54,560
kennedy told marilyn monroe about a trip

1085
00:38:57,990 --> 00:38:55,760
he made to

1086
00:39:00,470 --> 00:38:58,000
uh an air base somewhere in the u.s to

1087
00:39:03,510 --> 00:39:00,480
see a crashed spacecraft and some dead

1088
00:39:05,510 --> 00:39:03,520
bodies now this actually this story

1089
00:39:06,630 --> 00:39:05,520
comes from a document that didn't

1090
00:39:09,670 --> 00:39:06,640
surface through the freedom of

1091
00:39:12,310 --> 00:39:09,680
information act but there was given to

1092
00:39:14,390 --> 00:39:12,320
um an american author is now dead named

1093
00:39:16,150 --> 00:39:14,400
milo spiriglio he wrote three

1094
00:39:19,030 --> 00:39:16,160
non-fiction books on the death of

1095
00:39:21,190 --> 00:39:19,040
marilyn monroe uh all of which sort of

1096
00:39:24,109 --> 00:39:21,200
supported the conspiracy theory behind

1097
00:39:27,670 --> 00:39:24,119
the death and he was given a document in

1098
00:39:29,990 --> 00:39:27,680
1995 it was purportedly a leaked cia

1099
00:39:33,349 --> 00:39:30,000
document of a wiretap

1100
00:39:34,950 --> 00:39:33,359
between um two particular individuals

1101
00:39:38,150 --> 00:39:34,960
one um

1102
00:39:41,109 --> 00:39:38,160
dorothy kilgallon dorothy kilgallon

1103
00:39:43,430 --> 00:39:41,119
was a famous journalist in the 1950s and

1104
00:39:45,349 --> 00:39:43,440
60s it was actually the last person to

1105
00:39:48,150 --> 00:39:45,359
interview chat ruby who shot the rv

1106
00:39:50,870 --> 00:39:48,160
oswald well this document is reportedly

1107
00:39:52,790 --> 00:39:50,880
a wiretap transcript of a conversation

1108
00:39:54,710 --> 00:39:52,800
between dorothy kilgallon and a man

1109
00:39:57,270 --> 00:39:54,720
named howard rothberg who was a mutual

1110
00:39:59,430 --> 00:39:57,280
friend of dorothy kilgall and marilyn

1111
00:40:02,470 --> 00:39:59,440
monroe and it's in this conversation

1112
00:40:03,430 --> 00:40:02,480
that kill gallon and rothberg talk about

1113
00:40:05,910 --> 00:40:03,440
um

1114
00:40:08,150 --> 00:40:05,920
this conversation or this story that

1115
00:40:10,790 --> 00:40:08,160
marilyn monroe had supposedly told both

1116
00:40:13,109 --> 00:40:10,800
of them about this crashed object and

1117
00:40:15,109 --> 00:40:13,119
these strange bodies or dead bodies

1118
00:40:17,670 --> 00:40:15,119
and um

1119
00:40:18,950 --> 00:40:17,680
the the story is that marilyn monroe

1120
00:40:20,390 --> 00:40:18,960
because of the way she'd been treated by

1121
00:40:21,910 --> 00:40:20,400
the kennedys threatened to blow the

1122
00:40:22,870 --> 00:40:21,920
whistle on everything it was going to go

1123
00:40:24,790 --> 00:40:22,880
public

1124
00:40:26,470 --> 00:40:24,800
with all these stories that kennedy told

1125
00:40:28,390 --> 00:40:26,480
her that were in the red book well of

1126
00:40:30,230 --> 00:40:28,400
course that never happened because she

1127
00:40:32,950 --> 00:40:30,240
was found dead in august

1128
00:40:35,829 --> 00:40:32,960
1962 in the first week of august this

1129
00:40:39,349 --> 00:40:35,839
document is actually dated just two days

1130
00:40:41,109 --> 00:40:39,359
before she died and so that in itself is

1131
00:40:43,829 --> 00:40:41,119
potentially suspicious

1132
00:40:46,710 --> 00:40:43,839
but a number of people who worked in the

1133
00:40:49,750 --> 00:40:46,720
coroner's office and um

1134
00:40:52,230 --> 00:40:49,760
in the city in the police department and

1135
00:40:54,150 --> 00:40:52,240
in the mortuary all said that they saw

1136
00:40:56,790 --> 00:40:54,160
this red book as it was known it was

1137
00:40:58,870 --> 00:40:56,800
like a thick red journal and they said

1138
00:41:00,710 --> 00:40:58,880
it was brought into the uh coroner's

1139
00:41:02,309 --> 00:41:00,720
office with a lot of her own sort of

1140
00:41:04,870 --> 00:41:02,319
personal possessions

1141
00:41:07,349 --> 00:41:04,880
and um but it vanished from there after

1142
00:41:10,550 --> 00:41:07,359
about two days and nobody knows what

1143
00:41:12,630 --> 00:41:10,560
happened to his nobody at all now

1144
00:41:15,190 --> 00:41:12,640
so in other words that is probably the

1145
00:41:17,670 --> 00:41:15,200
most important piece of documented

1146
00:41:19,109 --> 00:41:17,680
evidence on marilyn monroe that's gone

1147
00:41:21,750 --> 00:41:19,119
now the fbi

1148
00:41:24,069 --> 00:41:21,760
they've released now hundreds of pages

1149
00:41:26,309 --> 00:41:24,079
of material on her and i think

1150
00:41:27,910 --> 00:41:26,319
um you know a lot of most of the stuff

1151
00:41:29,990 --> 00:41:27,920
we're gonna get on her from the fbi i

1152
00:41:31,190 --> 00:41:30,000
think we've already got now we certainly

1153
00:41:32,950 --> 00:41:31,200
don't have

1154
00:41:35,510 --> 00:41:32,960
what is rumored to exist which is like

1155
00:41:38,710 --> 00:41:35,520
endless reams of transcripts of

1156
00:41:40,390 --> 00:41:38,720
conversations between her and jfk

1157
00:41:42,550 --> 00:41:40,400
but we do know that a lot of hoover's

1158
00:41:45,109 --> 00:41:42,560
files were shredded in the early 70s his

1159
00:41:47,589 --> 00:41:45,119
personal files so it's possible that

1160
00:41:49,829 --> 00:41:47,599
that's where a lot of her papers went

1161
00:41:51,990 --> 00:41:49,839
but there is another angle as well

1162
00:41:53,589 --> 00:41:52,000
the early fbi files that have been

1163
00:41:55,670 --> 00:41:53,599
declassified or which you can read at

1164
00:41:57,829 --> 00:41:55,680
the vault several of them several of

1165
00:42:00,790 --> 00:41:57,839
them actually have the director of the

1166
00:42:03,910 --> 00:42:00,800
cia copied on the documents so the cia

1167
00:42:05,829 --> 00:42:03,920
should have those documents on file but

1168
00:42:07,589 --> 00:42:05,839
today they cannot be found in the

1169
00:42:09,510 --> 00:42:07,599
headquarters of the cia in other words

1170
00:42:12,069 --> 00:42:09,520
there are fbi files on marilyn monroe

1171
00:42:14,309 --> 00:42:12,079
that were photocopied and forwarded to

1172
00:42:15,430 --> 00:42:14,319
the cia because marilyn monroe was

1173
00:42:16,950 --> 00:42:15,440
looking to

1174
00:42:19,430 --> 00:42:16,960
to go to russia

1175
00:42:21,109 --> 00:42:19,440
so that's another puzzling thing is that

1176
00:42:22,390 --> 00:42:21,119
why are these documents which are fairly

1177
00:42:25,030 --> 00:42:22,400
innocuous today there's nothing

1178
00:42:27,750 --> 00:42:25,040
sensational about them why is it those

1179
00:42:29,990 --> 00:42:27,760
files which we can prove from the fbi's

1180
00:42:32,309 --> 00:42:30,000
own records ironically was sent to me

1181
00:42:34,950 --> 00:42:32,319
cia why can't they be found now it

1182
00:42:36,150 --> 00:42:34,960
almost sounds like again this sort of

1183
00:42:39,190 --> 00:42:36,160
shadow

1184
00:42:40,790 --> 00:42:39,200
agency went in and sanitized everything

1185
00:42:43,589 --> 00:42:40,800
and in the same way that the air force

1186
00:42:45,750 --> 00:42:43,599
are baffled by their lack of roswell

1187
00:42:46,710 --> 00:42:45,760
records the cia are baffled by the fact

1188
00:42:49,430 --> 00:42:46,720
that

1189
00:42:51,670 --> 00:42:49,440
something on marilyn monroe because the

1190
00:42:53,510 --> 00:42:51,680
fbi sent it to them but

1191
00:42:56,069 --> 00:42:53,520
those files have gone so who knows how

1192
00:42:59,430 --> 00:42:56,079
many others you know might have been

1193
00:43:01,109 --> 00:42:59,440
polled 30 40 50 years ago we just don't

1194
00:43:03,109 --> 00:43:01,119
really know when it could have happened

1195
00:43:05,670 --> 00:43:03,119
yeah that is a real shame but it's an

1196
00:43:07,030 --> 00:43:05,680
interesting little saga and do you put

1197
00:43:08,790 --> 00:43:07,040
any stock i know you've been looking at

1198
00:43:10,950 --> 00:43:08,800
this stuff for a long time do you put

1199
00:43:13,109 --> 00:43:10,960
any stock at all in the old legend that

1200
00:43:15,030 --> 00:43:13,119
kennedy was taken out over his plan to

1201
00:43:16,710 --> 00:43:15,040
disclose some information on alien

1202
00:43:18,230 --> 00:43:16,720
contacts and ufos because if marilyn

1203
00:43:20,630 --> 00:43:18,240
monroe was killed because she was going

1204
00:43:22,309 --> 00:43:20,640
to disclose i guess you could say it

1205
00:43:23,430 --> 00:43:22,319
would make sense that if he decided he

1206
00:43:25,109 --> 00:43:23,440
wanted to

1207
00:43:26,630 --> 00:43:25,119
he would go as well

1208
00:43:28,630 --> 00:43:26,640
well yeah i mean i've got an entire

1209
00:43:31,430 --> 00:43:28,640
chapter on this in the close encounters

1210
00:43:33,589 --> 00:43:31,440
of the fatal kind book and um i mean it

1211
00:43:35,750 --> 00:43:33,599
sounds to some people even within

1212
00:43:36,950 --> 00:43:35,760
ufology you know it sounds too extreme

1213
00:43:38,630 --> 00:43:36,960
to imagine that

1214
00:43:40,630 --> 00:43:38,640
the world's probably the two biggest

1215
00:43:41,990 --> 00:43:40,640
conspiracies the kennedy assassination

1216
00:43:43,270 --> 00:43:42,000
and ufos

1217
00:43:45,910 --> 00:43:43,280
the idea that they could actually be

1218
00:43:47,589 --> 00:43:45,920
just part of one big conspiracy that's

1219
00:43:50,230 --> 00:43:47,599
sort of too much for even people in the

1220
00:43:52,309 --> 00:43:50,240
ufo subject often take but

1221
00:43:54,630 --> 00:43:52,319
the fact is that the more we look into

1222
00:43:56,550 --> 00:43:54,640
the ufo subject and the kennedy

1223
00:43:57,589 --> 00:43:56,560
assassination the more we actually do

1224
00:44:00,870 --> 00:43:57,599
find

1225
00:44:02,710 --> 00:44:00,880
um a lot of crossover tangents i mean to

1226
00:44:06,870 --> 00:44:02,720
give you on one example

1227
00:44:08,470 --> 00:44:06,880
um back in 1947 in a place called mori

1228
00:44:12,390 --> 00:44:08,480
island washington state

1229
00:44:15,829 --> 00:44:12,400
there was a story uh june the 20th 1947

1230
00:44:18,069 --> 00:44:15,839
of a like a squadron of ufos seen flying

1231
00:44:20,390 --> 00:44:18,079
over the harbor of maury island

1232
00:44:23,190 --> 00:44:20,400
and reportedly one of these ufos

1233
00:44:25,589 --> 00:44:23,200
exploded in the air and and sort of all

1234
00:44:27,510 --> 00:44:25,599
this strange wreckage was sort of strewn

1235
00:44:30,309 --> 00:44:27,520
into the harbour area and collected by a

1236
00:44:32,390 --> 00:44:30,319
guy named harold dahl harold doll handed

1237
00:44:35,030 --> 00:44:32,400
it over to a man named fred chrisman he

1238
00:44:37,829 --> 00:44:35,040
was very shadowy unusual actually quite

1239
00:44:40,790 --> 00:44:37,839
weird character who had a lot of ties to

1240
00:44:43,270 --> 00:44:40,800
the intelligence community and um

1241
00:44:46,390 --> 00:44:43,280
sort of off the record ties as well it

1242
00:44:48,069 --> 00:44:46,400
turns out that um fred christman who

1243
00:44:50,069 --> 00:44:48,079
picked up this weird wreckage and shared

1244
00:44:53,510 --> 00:44:50,079
it with the military actually turns up

1245
00:44:56,550 --> 00:44:53,520
in the kennedy assassination in fact um

1246
00:44:58,230 --> 00:44:56,560
jim garrison the district attorney of

1247
00:45:00,870 --> 00:44:58,240
new orleans who was played by kevin

1248
00:45:02,230 --> 00:45:00,880
costner in the jfk movie he actually

1249
00:45:04,470 --> 00:45:02,240
came to believe

1250
00:45:05,990 --> 00:45:04,480
that chrisman was one of the gunmen of

1251
00:45:08,630 --> 00:45:06,000
the grassy knoll

1252
00:45:10,470 --> 00:45:08,640
now on top of that another man who is

1253
00:45:14,069 --> 00:45:10,480
known to chrisman and also known to lee

1254
00:45:16,790 --> 00:45:14,079
rv oswald was a former fbi agent named

1255
00:45:19,190 --> 00:45:16,800
guy bannister who's also played

1256
00:45:21,349 --> 00:45:19,200
or portrayed i should say the jfk movie

1257
00:45:24,710 --> 00:45:21,359
by uh ed asner

1258
00:45:26,069 --> 00:45:24,720
and guy bannister um was somebody who

1259
00:45:28,230 --> 00:45:26,079
extensively

1260
00:45:30,710 --> 00:45:28,240
uh researched and studied the ufo

1261
00:45:32,550 --> 00:45:30,720
subject for the fbi in the summer of 47

1262
00:45:34,230 --> 00:45:32,560
when the whole thing kicked off and he

1263
00:45:36,790 --> 00:45:34,240
said his ufo files have now been

1264
00:45:39,109 --> 00:45:36,800
declassified and uh and at one point in

1265
00:45:42,630 --> 00:45:39,119
july 47 he actually got a

1266
00:45:44,309 --> 00:45:42,640
uh behind closed doors briefing on ufos

1267
00:45:46,230 --> 00:45:44,319
by the military

1268
00:45:48,710 --> 00:45:46,240
and we have a lot of things like this

1269
00:45:52,230 --> 00:45:48,720
where people who are in the intel world

1270
00:45:54,950 --> 00:45:52,240
in 47 in relation to ufos popped up

1271
00:45:58,230 --> 00:45:54,960
years later in the kennedy assassination

1272
00:46:01,030 --> 00:45:58,240
now in relation to kennedy himself

1273
00:46:02,950 --> 00:46:01,040
um there are as you said rumors that um

1274
00:46:05,510 --> 00:46:02,960
he wanted to go public

1275
00:46:08,390 --> 00:46:05,520
with what he knew about ufos the stories

1276
00:46:09,990 --> 00:46:08,400
there were two reasons one he felt

1277
00:46:12,069 --> 00:46:10,000
he was important enough alone for the

1278
00:46:14,150 --> 00:46:12,079
general public to know he felt the idea

1279
00:46:16,309 --> 00:46:14,160
that if there is alien life out there

1280
00:46:17,910 --> 00:46:16,319
we've got something even it's just a few

1281
00:46:19,030 --> 00:46:17,920
bones and bodies and fragments of

1282
00:46:21,589 --> 00:46:19,040
wreckage

1283
00:46:23,829 --> 00:46:21,599
then he felt everybody should know

1284
00:46:25,190 --> 00:46:23,839
but there was also allegedly at least

1285
00:46:26,630 --> 00:46:25,200
another reason

1286
00:46:28,150 --> 00:46:26,640
he felt that

1287
00:46:30,550 --> 00:46:28,160
at the height of the cold war where we'd

1288
00:46:31,750 --> 00:46:30,560
all got nuclear weapons the reason why

1289
00:46:33,910 --> 00:46:31,760
there wasn't a third world war is

1290
00:46:35,990 --> 00:46:33,920
because neither side would dare risk

1291
00:46:38,069 --> 00:46:36,000
launching them because they both despite

1292
00:46:40,790 --> 00:46:38,079
all the bluff and bravado both the

1293
00:46:43,349 --> 00:46:40,800
soviets and nato knew that neither could

1294
00:46:45,109 --> 00:46:43,359
defeat each other you know but just

1295
00:46:46,309 --> 00:46:45,119
seconds after we launched our missiles

1296
00:46:48,630 --> 00:46:46,319
and they launched

1297
00:46:50,150 --> 00:46:48,640
bears we would be able to detect you

1298
00:46:52,150 --> 00:46:50,160
know that they were flying and we'd just

1299
00:46:55,109 --> 00:46:52,160
fire back and everybody would die

1300
00:46:56,870 --> 00:46:55,119
and so kennedy felt if we had

1301
00:46:59,910 --> 00:46:56,880
access to highly advanced alien

1302
00:47:01,430 --> 00:46:59,920
technology and the russians found out

1303
00:47:04,309 --> 00:47:01,440
they might be so frightened that they

1304
00:47:06,950 --> 00:47:04,319
actually might risk a first strike

1305
00:47:08,950 --> 00:47:06,960
um and so the story is that kennedy

1306
00:47:10,390 --> 00:47:08,960
wanted to share the alien technology

1307
00:47:12,870 --> 00:47:10,400
with the russians as well to keep a

1308
00:47:14,710 --> 00:47:12,880
balance of power as as hard as it might

1309
00:47:16,230 --> 00:47:14,720
sound but it also kind of makes a degree

1310
00:47:18,790 --> 00:47:16,240
of sense as well

1311
00:47:20,870 --> 00:47:18,800
um and so to the people who were sort of

1312
00:47:21,829 --> 00:47:20,880
hiding the truth the so-called you know

1313
00:47:24,150 --> 00:47:21,839
that became known as the

1314
00:47:27,349 --> 00:47:24,160
military-industrial complex the story is

1315
00:47:29,750 --> 00:47:27,359
that this was just too much and and he

1316
00:47:31,430 --> 00:47:29,760
had to go you know the countdown was on

1317
00:47:35,109 --> 00:47:31,440
um now

1318
00:47:38,230 --> 00:47:35,119
had kennedy um decided to go public you

1319
00:47:39,910 --> 00:47:38,240
know the you you would rationalize that

1320
00:47:41,990 --> 00:47:39,920
in the build-up to doing that he would

1321
00:47:44,630 --> 00:47:42,000
want to meet with people who

1322
00:47:46,390 --> 00:47:44,640
were in a place and a position to share

1323
00:47:48,630 --> 00:47:46,400
information with him

1324
00:47:50,710 --> 00:47:48,640
so he could have a full picture and that

1325
00:47:53,190 --> 00:47:50,720
actually seems to be what we have for

1326
00:47:54,309 --> 00:47:53,200
example the day before he was shot kenny

1327
00:47:56,270 --> 00:47:54,319
was shot on

1328
00:47:59,190 --> 00:47:56,280
november 22nd

1329
00:48:01,030 --> 00:47:59,200
1963 in daly plaza as everybody knows

1330
00:48:03,349 --> 00:48:01,040
well the day before

1331
00:48:05,990 --> 00:48:03,359
he made a visit with jackie kennedy

1332
00:48:08,630 --> 00:48:06,000
to brooks air force base which is also

1333
00:48:10,870 --> 00:48:08,640
in texas and he was there to open a new

1334
00:48:12,550 --> 00:48:10,880
wing and this particular wing was

1335
00:48:14,309 --> 00:48:12,560
dedicated to

1336
00:48:16,790 --> 00:48:14,319
uh one of the time was called space

1337
00:48:18,069 --> 00:48:16,800
medicine the idea was that you know bear

1338
00:48:20,630 --> 00:48:18,079
in mind this was the early years of the

1339
00:48:21,910 --> 00:48:20,640
space race and we didn't really

1340
00:48:23,109 --> 00:48:21,920
know how

1341
00:48:26,309 --> 00:48:23,119
people would

1342
00:48:27,270 --> 00:48:26,319
be affected by exposure to for example

1343
00:48:30,230 --> 00:48:27,280
um

1344
00:48:31,430 --> 00:48:30,240
low gravity or no gravity or cosmic rays

1345
00:48:33,030 --> 00:48:31,440
you know how would you affect your blood

1346
00:48:35,430 --> 00:48:33,040
pressure your pulse your heart your

1347
00:48:37,349 --> 00:48:35,440
organs so this space medicine branch was

1348
00:48:39,750 --> 00:48:37,359
set up to research

1349
00:48:42,790 --> 00:48:39,760
all that sort of stuff now one of the

1350
00:48:45,589 --> 00:48:42,800
people who held a senior position there

1351
00:48:47,190 --> 00:48:45,599
was a major general theodore bedwell

1352
00:48:51,109 --> 00:48:47,200
well it turns out that in the summer of

1353
00:48:53,990 --> 00:48:51,119
1947 major general bedwell actually held

1354
00:48:56,390 --> 00:48:54,000
a major or significant um medical

1355
00:48:58,549 --> 00:48:56,400
position at right field as it is today

1356
00:49:00,470 --> 00:48:58,559
right paterson air force base and he

1357
00:49:02,549 --> 00:49:00,480
would have been somebody in the summer

1358
00:49:04,390 --> 00:49:02,559
47 when he worked there had been a prime

1359
00:49:06,710 --> 00:49:04,400
position to see the alien bodies when

1360
00:49:07,670 --> 00:49:06,720
they were reportedly taken to that very

1361
00:49:09,910 --> 00:49:07,680
base

1362
00:49:12,390 --> 00:49:09,920
and we know that kennedy had a behind

1363
00:49:14,309 --> 00:49:12,400
closed doors meeting with bedwell on

1364
00:49:17,109 --> 00:49:14,319
that day but another person he spoke

1365
00:49:20,630 --> 00:49:17,119
with on that same day um

1366
00:49:23,270 --> 00:49:20,640
held a significant um medical position

1367
00:49:26,549 --> 00:49:23,280
also at a place called fort dietrich in

1368
00:49:29,349 --> 00:49:26,559
maryland now fort dietrich is where even

1369
00:49:31,510 --> 00:49:29,359
today um the government undertakes all

1370
00:49:35,109 --> 00:49:31,520
its sort of research into biological

1371
00:49:38,630 --> 00:49:35,119
warfare exotic virus uh viruses you know

1372
00:49:40,309 --> 00:49:38,640
essentially to ensure that if somebody

1373
00:49:42,630 --> 00:49:40,319
like you know some hostile nation tries

1374
00:49:44,549 --> 00:49:42,640
to attack us with a deadly virus we have

1375
00:49:47,349 --> 00:49:44,559
some way to combat it now there have

1376
00:49:50,470 --> 00:49:47,359
been theories and stories about alien

1377
00:49:53,349 --> 00:49:50,480
bodies taken to fort dietrich um that

1378
00:49:55,109 --> 00:49:53,359
displayed some sort of deadly alien

1379
00:49:56,870 --> 00:49:55,119
virus one against which we probably

1380
00:49:59,589 --> 00:49:56,880
wouldn't have any kind of

1381
00:50:02,390 --> 00:49:59,599
defense at all well it turns out that on

1382
00:50:04,950 --> 00:50:02,400
the same day that he that kennedy met uh

1383
00:50:06,710 --> 00:50:04,960
major general bedwell he also met at

1384
00:50:07,910 --> 00:50:06,720
brooks a man named colonel harold

1385
00:50:14,790 --> 00:50:07,920
ellingson

1386
00:50:16,470 --> 00:50:14,800
the post surgeon and hospital commander

1387
00:50:17,349 --> 00:50:16,480
at fort dietrich

1388
00:50:19,829 --> 00:50:17,359
and

1389
00:50:22,630 --> 00:50:19,839
so again he would have been somebody

1390
00:50:26,150 --> 00:50:22,640
in a prime position to have access to

1391
00:50:29,589 --> 00:50:26,160
alien bodies with a viral angle and when

1392
00:50:31,589 --> 00:50:29,599
we see that it's sort of just 24 hours

1393
00:50:33,750 --> 00:50:31,599
before he was shot dead that kennedy's

1394
00:50:36,069 --> 00:50:33,760
meeting all these people traveling to a

1395
00:50:38,829 --> 00:50:36,079
base dealing with outer space fringe

1396
00:50:41,750 --> 00:50:38,839
technologies and viruses and space

1397
00:50:43,430 --> 00:50:41,760
technology 24 hours later he's dead you

1398
00:50:45,589 --> 00:50:43,440
know and then we have stories of fred

1399
00:50:49,109 --> 00:50:45,599
christman and guy bannister

1400
00:50:51,589 --> 00:50:49,119
involved at the in daley plaza and both

1401
00:50:54,390 --> 00:50:51,599
of those guys have a ufo history going

1402
00:50:56,630 --> 00:50:54,400
back to 47. so you know there are a lot

1403
00:50:58,549 --> 00:50:56,640
of strands like that

1404
00:51:01,109 --> 00:50:58,559
yeah it's it's just a weird one because

1405
00:51:02,790 --> 00:51:01,119
he he was ruffling so many feathers of

1406
00:51:05,030 --> 00:51:02,800
powerful people who were capable of

1407
00:51:08,309 --> 00:51:05,040
doing something like that and i think

1408
00:51:11,270 --> 00:51:08,319
the ufo connections seem to be the most

1409
00:51:13,670 --> 00:51:11,280
uh numerous but i guess one big

1410
00:51:17,510 --> 00:51:13,680
criticism i would say would just be that

1411
00:51:20,069 --> 00:51:17,520
24 hours is not a lot of time to plan

1412
00:51:23,270 --> 00:51:20,079
such a high profile murder but maybe

1413
00:51:26,470 --> 00:51:23,280
maybe i'm naive well no i don't i no i'd

1414
00:51:29,270 --> 00:51:26,480
agree with you on that but i i think

1415
00:51:32,470 --> 00:51:29,280
i mean if a theory has merits i think

1416
00:51:34,470 --> 00:51:32,480
the argument would possibly be that

1417
00:51:36,790 --> 00:51:34,480
they knew what he was going to be right

1418
00:51:38,069 --> 00:51:36,800
into what he was gonna do and maybe they

1419
00:51:41,109 --> 00:51:38,079
knew he was gonna sort of blow the

1420
00:51:43,430 --> 00:51:41,119
whistle on i know november 28th or 29th

1421
00:51:44,630 --> 00:51:43,440
so maybe it was just a case of well

1422
00:51:46,549 --> 00:51:44,640
let's he's going to speak to these

1423
00:51:48,710 --> 00:51:46,559
people regardless and we're just going

1424
00:51:50,870 --> 00:51:48,720
to get him on the 22nd in daley plaza

1425
00:51:53,190 --> 00:51:50,880
and his big speech on the 29th will

1426
00:51:54,549 --> 00:51:53,200
never happen anyway but i would actually

1427
00:51:56,630 --> 00:51:54,559
agree with you when you said he ruffled

1428
00:51:58,150 --> 00:51:56,640
a lot of feathers with a lot of people i

1429
00:51:59,270 --> 00:51:58,160
think actually what is probably more

1430
00:52:01,270 --> 00:51:59,280
likely

1431
00:52:03,430 --> 00:52:01,280
is that there were people in the ufo

1432
00:52:06,230 --> 00:52:03,440
program who wanted him gone there may

1433
00:52:08,549 --> 00:52:06,240
have been people in you know other

1434
00:52:10,390 --> 00:52:08,559
offices who wanted him gone that could

1435
00:52:12,150 --> 00:52:10,400
have been well we know that a lot of

1436
00:52:13,670 --> 00:52:12,160
people in the mafia didn't like him in

1437
00:52:14,790 --> 00:52:13,680
cuba and there may have been vested

1438
00:52:16,870 --> 00:52:14,800
interests

1439
00:52:19,190 --> 00:52:16,880
in having all these people kind of on

1440
00:52:22,150 --> 00:52:19,200
board um you know a bunch of people

1441
00:52:24,150 --> 00:52:22,160
wanted him gone and sometimes you know

1442
00:52:27,190 --> 00:52:24,160
countries and agencies work with the

1443
00:52:30,710 --> 00:52:27,200
enemy for what they see is like a bigger

1444
00:52:32,710 --> 00:52:30,720
you know goal i mean like the kgb and

1445
00:52:36,309 --> 00:52:32,720
and and the us have worked together at

1446
00:52:37,589 --> 00:52:36,319
times uh against china um you know the

1447
00:52:40,870 --> 00:52:37,599
there are a number of interesting

1448
00:52:42,710 --> 00:52:40,880
historical stories like that because

1449
00:52:43,670 --> 00:52:42,720
both of them sort of saw the chinese as

1450
00:52:45,430 --> 00:52:43,680
a threat

1451
00:52:46,950 --> 00:52:45,440
so you know it's not like we're all sort

1452
00:52:48,069 --> 00:52:46,960
of black and white

1453
00:52:49,270 --> 00:52:48,079
we're never going to talk with these

1454
00:52:51,190 --> 00:52:49,280
we're never going to do anything with

1455
00:52:52,470 --> 00:52:51,200
these you know it's not like that the

1456
00:52:54,710 --> 00:52:52,480
real world's

1457
00:52:57,270 --> 00:52:54,720
never been like that right yeah the

1458
00:52:59,670 --> 00:52:57,280
enemy of my enemy is my friend they say

1459
00:53:02,950 --> 00:52:59,680
but uh yeah let's jump to some of these

1460
00:53:04,710 --> 00:53:02,960
lesser-known ufo cases from that pop up

1461
00:53:07,109 --> 00:53:04,720
in these two books you have a great

1462
00:53:08,790 --> 00:53:07,119
story that took place right before the

1463
00:53:10,549 --> 00:53:08,800
kenneth arnold encounter a lot of people

1464
00:53:13,190 --> 00:53:10,559
know that as like the jumping off point

1465
00:53:14,390 --> 00:53:13,200
for a huge string of sightings uh in the

1466
00:53:16,950 --> 00:53:14,400
in this country

1467
00:53:18,790 --> 00:53:16,960
and uh this thing happened before

1468
00:53:20,710 --> 00:53:18,800
kenneth arnold's encounter in brazil

1469
00:53:22,549 --> 00:53:20,720
probably the creepiest ufo story i've

1470
00:53:23,910 --> 00:53:22,559
ever heard can you tell people about

1471
00:53:26,630 --> 00:53:23,920
what happened there

1472
00:53:30,069 --> 00:53:26,640
yeah well kenneth arnold's sighting uh

1473
00:53:31,910 --> 00:53:30,079
june the 24th 1947 was the one that

1474
00:53:33,750 --> 00:53:31,920
really kicked off the whole flying

1475
00:53:36,069 --> 00:53:33,760
saucer phenomenon i mean even to the

1476
00:53:38,630 --> 00:53:36,079
extent that before arnold siting the

1477
00:53:40,069 --> 00:53:38,640
term flying saucer didn't even exist

1478
00:53:42,230 --> 00:53:40,079
um just to give people a bit of

1479
00:53:44,470 --> 00:53:42,240
background who may not know kenneth

1480
00:53:46,790 --> 00:53:44,480
arnold was a pilot

1481
00:53:49,349 --> 00:53:46,800
and he had this sighting over mount

1482
00:53:52,790 --> 00:53:49,359
rainier in washington state in

1483
00:53:55,270 --> 00:53:52,800
on june 24 1947 of what we might call

1484
00:53:57,510 --> 00:53:55,280
like a squadron of ufos

1485
00:53:59,349 --> 00:53:57,520
and he didn't actually say they were

1486
00:54:01,109 --> 00:53:59,359
flying sources what he said was when

1487
00:54:03,190 --> 00:54:01,119
asked by a journalist he said they flew

1488
00:54:05,990 --> 00:54:03,200
like sources might if you skip them

1489
00:54:07,910 --> 00:54:06,000
across a body of water so like an undue

1490
00:54:10,870 --> 00:54:07,920
undulating motion and then an

1491
00:54:14,230 --> 00:54:10,880
enterprising journalist took those words

1492
00:54:15,990 --> 00:54:14,240
and created the term flying saucer um

1493
00:54:19,030 --> 00:54:16,000
but that doesn't mean that we didn't

1494
00:54:21,109 --> 00:54:19,040
have sightings or reports that predated

1495
00:54:24,069 --> 00:54:21,119
arnold we clearly do even in the modern

1496
00:54:27,349 --> 00:54:24,079
era and one of these occurred on the

1497
00:54:29,750 --> 00:54:27,359
night of march the 4th 1946

1498
00:54:32,549 --> 00:54:29,760
and um it occurred in a little uh

1499
00:54:35,990 --> 00:54:32,559
brazilian village and involved a man

1500
00:54:39,510 --> 00:54:36,000
named juao prestes filho and um

1501
00:54:41,670 --> 00:54:39,520
he was 44 years old at the time and um

1502
00:54:43,589 --> 00:54:41,680
he was a farmer in this little village

1503
00:54:45,750 --> 00:54:43,599
and he'd spent the day it was a day off

1504
00:54:47,510 --> 00:54:45,760
he spent the day fishing and you know

1505
00:54:49,750 --> 00:54:47,520
got a lot of food for his family and so

1506
00:54:51,910 --> 00:54:49,760
on and sort of walking back to the

1507
00:54:53,349 --> 00:54:51,920
village and the sun was setting it was

1508
00:54:54,470 --> 00:54:53,359
sort of crossed between dusk and

1509
00:54:56,950 --> 00:54:54,480
darkness

1510
00:54:59,270 --> 00:54:56,960
and uh he kind of had that feeling that

1511
00:55:00,870 --> 00:54:59,280
we all get tired from time to time when

1512
00:55:02,390 --> 00:55:00,880
you think someone's watching you and you

1513
00:55:04,150 --> 00:55:02,400
swing your head around and somebody is

1514
00:55:06,069 --> 00:55:04,160
you know you're like him in the line at

1515
00:55:07,670 --> 00:55:06,079
the checkout or something and you just

1516
00:55:09,349 --> 00:55:07,680
get that feeling and when you turn

1517
00:55:11,829 --> 00:55:09,359
around somebody's eyes are boring into

1518
00:55:14,069 --> 00:55:11,839
you from 60 feet away or whatever

1519
00:55:15,670 --> 00:55:14,079
he had that feeling but he couldn't he

1520
00:55:18,710 --> 00:55:15,680
didn't see anyone but he couldn't shake

1521
00:55:20,710 --> 00:55:18,720
it off that he was being watched and

1522
00:55:22,630 --> 00:55:20,720
we got back home

1523
00:55:25,430 --> 00:55:22,640
and he still felt it he still could not

1524
00:55:27,750 --> 00:55:25,440
get rid of this uh this feeling

1525
00:55:29,510 --> 00:55:27,760
and he sort of looked around the house

1526
00:55:32,150 --> 00:55:29,520
opened the door looked around and then

1527
00:55:35,190 --> 00:55:32,160
he opened one of the windows uh in the

1528
00:55:37,510 --> 00:55:35,200
house and he was suddenly sort of

1529
00:55:40,390 --> 00:55:37,520
behaved he's probably the best word to

1530
00:55:41,829 --> 00:55:40,400
uh to use like a bright glow or a beam

1531
00:55:43,990 --> 00:55:41,839
but it was coming from some sort of

1532
00:55:45,990 --> 00:55:44,000
object hovering high in the sky

1533
00:55:48,710 --> 00:55:46,000
but wasn't making any noise and you know

1534
00:55:49,990 --> 00:55:48,720
obviously hovering it wasn't moving um

1535
00:55:51,750 --> 00:55:50,000
so it could have been a helicopter

1536
00:55:53,510 --> 00:55:51,760
because if there's one things

1537
00:55:54,870 --> 00:55:53,520
helicopters do you and certainly about

1538
00:55:56,870 --> 00:55:54,880
there you know they make a hell of a lot

1539
00:55:59,589 --> 00:55:56,880
of noise now there are stories today

1540
00:56:02,789 --> 00:55:59,599
about agencies perfecting silent

1541
00:56:04,870 --> 00:56:02,799
helicopters but back in 47 you know they

1542
00:56:07,270 --> 00:56:04,880
would have made a huge rumbling noise

1543
00:56:09,910 --> 00:56:07,280
but this object was totally silent

1544
00:56:10,870 --> 00:56:09,920
well he got hit by this beam

1545
00:56:13,109 --> 00:56:10,880
and

1546
00:56:15,589 --> 00:56:13,119
he he was able to before he died he was

1547
00:56:16,630 --> 00:56:15,599
actually able to tell friends and

1548
00:56:19,670 --> 00:56:16,640
neighbors

1549
00:56:21,829 --> 00:56:19,680
that his body sort of started to heat up

1550
00:56:23,829 --> 00:56:21,839
and with hindsight it kind of sounds

1551
00:56:26,309 --> 00:56:23,839
like he was bathed in some sort of

1552
00:56:29,030 --> 00:56:26,319
microwave or buy some sort of microwave

1553
00:56:31,510 --> 00:56:29,040
technology now so when you cook food in

1554
00:56:33,510 --> 00:56:31,520
a microwave as everybody knows he always

1555
00:56:34,789 --> 00:56:33,520
says on the package let it stand for two

1556
00:56:36,630 --> 00:56:34,799
or three minutes

1557
00:56:39,030 --> 00:56:36,640
that's actually not just because the

1558
00:56:41,270 --> 00:56:39,040
food comes out super hot it's because

1559
00:56:43,349 --> 00:56:41,280
microwaves cook from the inside out so

1560
00:56:44,789 --> 00:56:43,359
in other words the food is actually

1561
00:56:46,549 --> 00:56:44,799
still cooking

1562
00:56:47,910 --> 00:56:46,559
during that period when you're taking it

1563
00:56:49,430 --> 00:56:47,920
out of the microwave that's why they let

1564
00:56:51,670 --> 00:56:49,440
it ask you to let it stand because

1565
00:56:53,589 --> 00:56:51,680
you're you're cooking you're eating food

1566
00:56:54,710 --> 00:56:53,599
otherwise where the microwaves are still

1567
00:56:56,069 --> 00:56:54,720
cooking it

1568
00:56:57,990 --> 00:56:56,079
and um

1569
00:57:00,390 --> 00:56:58,000
with hindsight as i said it sounds like

1570
00:57:01,829 --> 00:57:00,400
something along these lines happened to

1571
00:57:03,910 --> 00:57:01,839
him because

1572
00:57:05,510 --> 00:57:03,920
although obviously the beam went away

1573
00:57:08,950 --> 00:57:05,520
and the object went away

1574
00:57:10,789 --> 00:57:08,960
his skin continued to peel and burn

1575
00:57:12,870 --> 00:57:10,799
almost it began kind of like if you get

1576
00:57:15,030 --> 00:57:12,880
a bad sunburn in your skin peels but

1577
00:57:17,589 --> 00:57:15,040
then he got worse and worse and

1578
00:57:18,549 --> 00:57:17,599
portions of his skin started to blister

1579
00:57:20,950 --> 00:57:18,559
and then

1580
00:57:23,990 --> 00:57:20,960
little scabs would fall off and so on

1581
00:57:25,510 --> 00:57:24,000
and he was just bleeding and his family

1582
00:57:27,510 --> 00:57:25,520
and friends raced him to the nearest

1583
00:57:30,549 --> 00:57:27,520
hospital by the time they got there his

1584
00:57:33,750 --> 00:57:30,559
skin was literally starting to slide off

1585
00:57:36,870 --> 00:57:33,760
and he essentially melted away into like

1586
00:57:38,630 --> 00:57:36,880
a pile of pretty much nothing um in the

1587
00:57:40,870 --> 00:57:38,640
hospital now it sounds straight out of

1588
00:57:42,309 --> 00:57:40,880
like a sci-fi story but actually

1589
00:57:45,270 --> 00:57:42,319
and amazingly

1590
00:57:48,069 --> 00:57:45,280
and horrifically as well isn't um a

1591
00:57:49,910 --> 00:57:48,079
number of the military people um who

1592
00:57:51,829 --> 00:57:49,920
were involved and also the doctors have

1593
00:57:53,589 --> 00:57:51,839
come forward and said you know and

1594
00:57:55,670 --> 00:57:53,599
confirm their involvement and the fact

1595
00:57:58,069 --> 00:57:55,680
that yes this was all recorded and one

1596
00:58:01,589 --> 00:57:58,079
of them was a man named arasi gomeid who

1597
00:58:03,109 --> 00:58:01,599
was one of the medics um who was in

1598
00:58:06,549 --> 00:58:03,119
in the hospital at the time and actually

1599
00:58:09,589 --> 00:58:06,559
got to see um bilgo as he just literally

1600
00:58:11,589 --> 00:58:09,599
kind of disintegrated and um

1601
00:58:13,910 --> 00:58:11,599
you know when you look at a story like

1602
00:58:14,870 --> 00:58:13,920
this i mean that really doesn't seem to

1603
00:58:16,630 --> 00:58:14,880
be

1604
00:58:19,349 --> 00:58:16,640
any way to view it other than just

1605
00:58:21,109 --> 00:58:19,359
downright deliberate hostility for the

1606
00:58:23,589 --> 00:58:21,119
sake of it you know there doesn't need

1607
00:58:24,470 --> 00:58:23,599
to be any other explanation behind it at

1608
00:58:26,150 --> 00:58:24,480
all

1609
00:58:28,630 --> 00:58:26,160
yeah that one's pretty straightforward

1610
00:58:30,230 --> 00:58:28,640
and pretty creepy but uh it did remind

1611
00:58:31,910 --> 00:58:30,240
me of something that's not mentioned

1612
00:58:33,990 --> 00:58:31,920
much anymore but i used to when i was a

1613
00:58:35,589 --> 00:58:34,000
kid hear stories of spontaneous human

1614
00:58:37,670 --> 00:58:35,599
combustion where people are found in

1615
00:58:39,750 --> 00:58:37,680
just a pile of ash and that was always

1616
00:58:41,190 --> 00:58:39,760
like super terrifying to me i'm like why

1617
00:58:43,589 --> 00:58:41,200
even put my seatbelt on when i could

1618
00:58:44,710 --> 00:58:43,599
just explode at any minute

1619
00:58:46,069 --> 00:58:44,720
well actually it's funny if you bring

1620
00:58:48,950 --> 00:58:46,079
that up i mean i don't mention that

1621
00:58:50,950 --> 00:58:48,960
subject in the book but um there was

1622
00:58:54,789 --> 00:58:50,960
actually a large fbi file on a woman

1623
00:58:56,870 --> 00:58:54,799
named mary hardy reese who died of shc

1624
00:58:59,030 --> 00:58:56,880
in the early 50s

1625
00:59:01,109 --> 00:58:59,040
and that file has been declassified by

1626
00:59:03,510 --> 00:59:01,119
the fbi it's i think it's about 200

1627
00:59:05,750 --> 00:59:03,520
pages long or 150 pages long and it's

1628
00:59:08,069 --> 00:59:05,760
just sort of filled with the autopsy

1629
00:59:10,230 --> 00:59:08,079
report and newspaper clippings and

1630
00:59:12,630 --> 00:59:10,240
theories where members of the public had

1631
00:59:13,990 --> 00:59:12,640
written to the to jaguar and you know

1632
00:59:15,910 --> 00:59:14,000
come up with theories as to how it could

1633
00:59:18,470 --> 00:59:15,920
have happened it's sort of fascinating

1634
00:59:21,910 --> 00:59:18,480
almost like an early x-file uh like a

1635
00:59:24,150 --> 00:59:21,920
real x-file created by the fbi to

1636
00:59:26,150 --> 00:59:24,160
to study this woman who reportedly died

1637
00:59:27,829 --> 00:59:26,160
of spontaneous combustion

1638
00:59:29,750 --> 00:59:27,839
yeah wow

1639
00:59:31,430 --> 00:59:29,760
i don't hear much about that anymore but

1640
00:59:33,190 --> 00:59:31,440
there definitely were some weird stories

1641
00:59:36,309 --> 00:59:33,200
back in the day

1642
00:59:38,710 --> 00:59:36,319
another great ufo story that you have in

1643
00:59:41,349 --> 00:59:38,720
uh for nobody's eyes only because it

1644
00:59:44,150 --> 00:59:41,359
does involve some missing documents is

1645
00:59:46,789 --> 00:59:44,160
the ufo encounter over an iranian base

1646
00:59:49,510 --> 00:59:46,799
in 1976 i believe some interesting

1647
00:59:53,349 --> 00:59:49,520
details to that encounter aren't there

1648
00:59:57,349 --> 00:59:53,359
yeah the case itself alone is important

1649
00:59:59,030 --> 00:59:57,359
because it involves um a military pilot

1650
01:00:00,710 --> 00:59:59,040
chasing a ufo

1651
01:00:03,829 --> 01:00:00,720
and so

1652
01:00:05,430 --> 01:00:03,839
missing falls on its own alone is

1653
01:00:07,750 --> 01:00:05,440
profound enough but you know when you've

1654
01:00:09,270 --> 01:00:07,760
got something where almost like a dog

1655
01:00:11,589 --> 01:00:09,280
fight or i would say almost when a

1656
01:00:13,589 --> 01:00:11,599
literal dogfight sort of occurring in

1657
01:00:15,109 --> 01:00:13,599
the sky then and the father's going to

1658
01:00:17,670 --> 01:00:15,119
miss me in that situation that's even

1659
01:00:20,789 --> 01:00:17,680
more profound but this actually occurred

1660
01:00:24,390 --> 01:00:20,799
on september the 19th 1976

1661
01:00:26,150 --> 01:00:24,400
and iraq involved the iranian air force

1662
01:00:28,870 --> 01:00:26,160
and an event that occurred in iranian

1663
01:00:30,230 --> 01:00:28,880
airspace now this actually occurred when

1664
01:00:32,630 --> 01:00:30,240
we were on

1665
01:00:34,630 --> 01:00:32,640
i won't say you know friendly terms with

1666
01:00:37,670 --> 01:00:34,640
the iranians but certainly on cordial

1667
01:00:39,270 --> 01:00:37,680
terms with them to the extent that um

1668
01:00:42,150 --> 01:00:39,280
a large amount of

1669
01:00:43,270 --> 01:00:42,160
mcdonald douglas phantom f4 aircraft was

1670
01:00:46,710 --> 01:00:43,280
sold

1671
01:00:47,910 --> 01:00:46,720
by the us to the iranians um and so

1672
01:00:50,789 --> 01:00:47,920
that's what the iranians were flying

1673
01:00:53,349 --> 01:00:50,799
back then they were flying um us phantom

1674
01:00:54,829 --> 01:00:53,359
aircraft and on the night of september

1675
01:00:58,230 --> 01:00:54,839
the 19th

1676
01:00:59,829 --> 01:00:58,240
1976 we had this incident where

1677
01:01:02,470 --> 01:00:59,839
uh pilots one of these particular

1678
01:01:03,589 --> 01:01:02,480
aircraft reported seeing a bright light

1679
01:01:05,750 --> 01:01:03,599
in the sky

1680
01:01:07,670 --> 01:01:05,760
very almost sort of dazzlingly bright

1681
01:01:09,349 --> 01:01:07,680
couldn't actually sort of make a shape

1682
01:01:11,910 --> 01:01:09,359
out of it you know like a disc or a

1683
01:01:13,430 --> 01:01:11,920
globe or whatever but it clearly was no

1684
01:01:17,190 --> 01:01:13,440
normal object because the light

1685
01:01:19,990 --> 01:01:17,200
configuration alone told him that so he

1686
01:01:20,950 --> 01:01:20,000
uh attempted an interception of it

1687
01:01:23,990 --> 01:01:20,960
and

1688
01:01:26,710 --> 01:01:24,000
also um armed his weapon system ready

1689
01:01:29,349 --> 01:01:26,720
just in case he needed it as the pilot

1690
01:01:32,309 --> 01:01:29,359
got closer to it um

1691
01:01:33,990 --> 01:01:32,319
he's he actually uh

1692
01:01:36,069 --> 01:01:34,000
what what basically happened was he

1693
01:01:37,670 --> 01:01:36,079
treat the stories that he was gonna fire

1694
01:01:39,510 --> 01:01:37,680
on the objects there's actually a room

1695
01:01:41,589 --> 01:01:39,520
he may have fired on it but most people

1696
01:01:43,190 --> 01:01:41,599
take the view that he was thinking about

1697
01:01:45,589 --> 01:01:43,200
it but actually didn't

1698
01:01:47,190 --> 01:01:45,599
um but that

1699
01:01:49,349 --> 01:01:47,200
possibility or that scenario was

1700
01:01:52,470 --> 01:01:49,359
supposedly taken out of his hands when

1701
01:01:54,549 --> 01:01:52,480
the entire weapon system was disabled

1702
01:01:56,309 --> 01:01:54,559
by whatever this object was it seemed to

1703
01:01:58,150 --> 01:01:56,319
have the ability to

1704
01:02:00,950 --> 01:01:58,160
not sort of you know have the object

1705
01:02:03,910 --> 01:02:00,960
just drop out the sky by wiping out its

1706
01:02:06,069 --> 01:02:03,920
entire system but just focusing on the

1707
01:02:07,670 --> 01:02:06,079
weapon system so it was just essentially

1708
01:02:08,630 --> 01:02:07,680
rendered harmless

1709
01:02:12,710 --> 01:02:08,640
and

1710
01:02:14,870 --> 01:02:12,720
game that went on in the skies for quite

1711
01:02:17,510 --> 01:02:14,880
a while and finally the object shut away

1712
01:02:19,910 --> 01:02:17,520
at high speed not interesting enough to

1713
01:02:22,230 --> 01:02:19,920
into the skies but reportedly to the

1714
01:02:24,230 --> 01:02:22,240
ground and there were stories about this

1715
01:02:26,150 --> 01:02:24,240
object being seen lit up on the ground

1716
01:02:27,829 --> 01:02:26,160
and the next day the military going the

1717
01:02:29,430 --> 01:02:27,839
iranian military going out but not

1718
01:02:31,109 --> 01:02:29,440
finding anything or at least that's the

1719
01:02:33,589 --> 01:02:31,119
official story

1720
01:02:36,710 --> 01:02:33,599
so you know we have this sort of bizarre

1721
01:02:38,390 --> 01:02:36,720
incredible case involving a dog fight

1722
01:02:41,349 --> 01:02:38,400
between a ufo

1723
01:02:45,270 --> 01:02:41,359
and um an iranian

1724
01:02:46,470 --> 01:02:45,280
pilot which ended in almost death for

1725
01:02:48,710 --> 01:02:46,480
the pilot

1726
01:02:51,190 --> 01:02:48,720
and certainly disabling of his entire

1727
01:02:53,270 --> 01:02:51,200
weapon system and of course something

1728
01:02:56,069 --> 01:02:53,280
like that it's hardly surprising that

1729
01:02:58,870 --> 01:02:56,079
official files would be put together and

1730
01:03:00,470 --> 01:02:58,880
we do have two documents in the public

1731
01:03:02,470 --> 01:03:00,480
domain that have both surfaced through

1732
01:03:04,870 --> 01:03:02,480
the freedom of information act

1733
01:03:07,109 --> 01:03:04,880
and they're essentially summaries of the

1734
01:03:09,430 --> 01:03:07,119
case which i'll just sort of describe to

1735
01:03:11,750 --> 01:03:09,440
you though through intelligence channels

1736
01:03:13,990 --> 01:03:11,760
um you intel us intelligence agencies

1737
01:03:17,510 --> 01:03:14,000
were able to put together a degree of

1738
01:03:20,230 --> 01:03:17,520
the picture of what happened however um

1739
01:03:23,430 --> 01:03:20,240
two researchers barry greenwood and

1740
01:03:27,270 --> 01:03:23,440
larry fawcett they spent a lot of time

1741
01:03:29,510 --> 01:03:27,280
and man hours digging into the case and

1742
01:03:31,829 --> 01:03:29,520
putting together freedom of information

1743
01:03:33,510 --> 01:03:31,839
requests and essentially firing requests

1744
01:03:34,309 --> 01:03:33,520
off to just about every agency under the

1745
01:03:36,630 --> 01:03:34,319
sun

1746
01:03:38,789 --> 01:03:36,640
for files on it now although they didn't

1747
01:03:40,309 --> 01:03:38,799
get any files other than these two which

1748
01:03:42,069 --> 01:03:40,319
amounts about eight or nine pages

1749
01:03:44,069 --> 01:03:42,079
altogether

1750
01:03:45,270 --> 01:03:44,079
they did sort of attract somebody's

1751
01:03:46,150 --> 01:03:45,280
attention

1752
01:03:49,109 --> 01:03:46,160
and

1753
01:03:50,549 --> 01:03:49,119
they um were contacted by people within

1754
01:03:51,910 --> 01:03:50,559
government who said yeah there is more

1755
01:03:54,630 --> 01:03:51,920
to this story but you're not going to

1756
01:03:56,390 --> 01:03:54,640
get the files and they mentioned to it

1757
01:03:58,710 --> 01:03:56,400
now supposedly one of these files was

1758
01:04:00,950 --> 01:03:58,720
like one and a half inches thick like a

1759
01:04:03,430 --> 01:04:00,960
gigantic file that clearly must have

1760
01:04:05,829 --> 01:04:03,440
told the whole story and probably more

1761
01:04:09,109 --> 01:04:05,839
than we'll ever know and they tried to

1762
01:04:11,270 --> 01:04:09,119
get this file nobody would owe it up

1763
01:04:13,829 --> 01:04:11,280
not necessarily just own up to having a

1764
01:04:15,670 --> 01:04:13,839
copy but even that it existed

1765
01:04:17,910 --> 01:04:15,680
but fawcett and greenwood's sources were

1766
01:04:19,349 --> 01:04:17,920
saying yeah it does exist it's just

1767
01:04:20,710 --> 01:04:19,359
you're just never going to get it that's

1768
01:04:23,349 --> 01:04:20,720
it

1769
01:04:26,309 --> 01:04:23,359
yeah man and another interesting detail

1770
01:04:29,270 --> 01:04:26,319
to that ufo encounter was that to get

1771
01:04:31,670 --> 01:04:29,280
away from the pilots it actually landed

1772
01:04:34,150 --> 01:04:31,680
in the dark in the desert i guess but

1773
01:04:36,150 --> 01:04:34,160
when i had heard that that it went down

1774
01:04:37,750 --> 01:04:36,160
that way it made me tally a chalk mark

1775
01:04:40,150 --> 01:04:37,760
in the column for those who say that

1776
01:04:41,670 --> 01:04:40,160
these beans and crafts come from inside

1777
01:04:43,190 --> 01:04:41,680
the earth rather than outer space i

1778
01:04:44,630 --> 01:04:43,200
think that's a really interesting idea

1779
01:04:46,150 --> 01:04:44,640
but do you put any stock in those

1780
01:04:48,150 --> 01:04:46,160
theories at all

1781
01:04:50,069 --> 01:04:48,160
well i mean people said well there's no

1782
01:04:52,710 --> 01:04:50,079
way it could be you know like an

1783
01:04:55,270 --> 01:04:52,720
underground race but they're quite open

1784
01:04:57,349 --> 01:04:55,280
to the idea of races coming from some

1785
01:04:59,430 --> 01:04:57,359
you know millions of

1786
01:05:01,990 --> 01:04:59,440
light years away

1787
01:05:05,430 --> 01:05:02,000
you know i mean it's no more a stretch

1788
01:05:07,910 --> 01:05:05,440
of believability um but yeah i i do

1789
01:05:10,069 --> 01:05:07,920
actually think the idea of like an

1790
01:05:12,390 --> 01:05:10,079
underground race whether aliens living

1791
01:05:13,670 --> 01:05:12,400
underground or some people think the ufo

1792
01:05:15,589 --> 01:05:13,680
phenomenon

1793
01:05:17,349 --> 01:05:15,599
is actually nothing to do with aliens

1794
01:05:18,309 --> 01:05:17,359
but he's like an ancient terrestrial

1795
01:05:20,710 --> 01:05:18,319
race

1796
01:05:22,470 --> 01:05:20,720
that masquerades as aliens so they don't

1797
01:05:23,910 --> 01:05:22,480
find out who we re so we don't find out

1798
01:05:24,870 --> 01:05:23,920
who they really are

1799
01:05:26,309 --> 01:05:24,880
um

1800
01:05:28,630 --> 01:05:26,319
there are some

1801
01:05:31,510 --> 01:05:28,640
interesting theories being put forward

1802
01:05:35,270 --> 01:05:31,520
um for that scenario for example

1803
01:05:37,910 --> 01:05:35,280
you know you look at alien abductions um

1804
01:05:40,069 --> 01:05:37,920
it seems at least on the face of it that

1805
01:05:42,309 --> 01:05:40,079
the primary reason for abductions is

1806
01:05:43,270 --> 01:05:42,319
sort of genetic issues

1807
01:05:47,750 --> 01:05:43,280
where

1808
01:05:51,029 --> 01:05:47,760
you know um eggs sperm blood um dna is

1809
01:05:52,789 --> 01:05:51,039
taken and these things sort of cross

1810
01:05:53,750 --> 01:05:52,799
breed them if you like to make hybrids

1811
01:05:56,950 --> 01:05:53,760
and

1812
01:06:00,069 --> 01:05:56,960
we are expected to believe i guess that

1813
01:06:02,150 --> 01:06:00,079
um we're genetically almost compatible

1814
01:06:05,349 --> 01:06:02,160
with creatures born in

1815
01:06:07,750 --> 01:06:05,359
in a solar system 10 20 light years away

1816
01:06:09,430 --> 01:06:07,760
which kind of sounds unlikely when you

1817
01:06:11,430 --> 01:06:09,440
think of it like that but if we're

1818
01:06:14,390 --> 01:06:11,440
dealing with an ancient terrestrial race

1819
01:06:17,109 --> 01:06:14,400
which may not be homo sapien like we are

1820
01:06:19,190 --> 01:06:17,119
but maybe like an early offshoot that

1821
01:06:21,270 --> 01:06:19,200
gain technology not necessarily like

1822
01:06:23,190 --> 01:06:21,280
cro-magnon man or neanderthal but

1823
01:06:26,470 --> 01:06:23,200
something along those lines like a a

1824
01:06:29,029 --> 01:06:26,480
more advanced offshoot of us

1825
01:06:31,510 --> 01:06:29,039
um that lives underground and that

1826
01:06:33,190 --> 01:06:31,520
possibly uses us you know in the same

1827
01:06:35,670 --> 01:06:33,200
way that we perceive our aliens are

1828
01:06:37,829 --> 01:06:35,680
using us but they sort of living vast

1829
01:06:39,029 --> 01:06:37,839
caverns and caves and you know they have

1830
01:06:41,750 --> 01:06:39,039
an entire

1831
01:06:44,390 --> 01:06:41,760
underground civilization yes it does

1832
01:06:45,670 --> 01:06:44,400
sound incredible and unlikely but you

1833
01:06:47,430 --> 01:06:45,680
know as i said what's

1834
01:06:49,990 --> 01:06:47,440
what's less likely or more likely the

1835
01:06:52,630 --> 01:06:50,000
idea of aliens coming from however far

1836
01:06:54,630 --> 01:06:52,640
away and us being somehow so genetically

1837
01:06:57,750 --> 01:06:54,640
compatible and also the fact that in

1838
01:06:58,630 --> 01:06:57,760
many ufo cases you know the entities are

1839
01:07:01,190 --> 01:06:58,640
seen

1840
01:07:03,349 --> 01:07:01,200
without space suits without oxygen mask

1841
01:07:05,910 --> 01:07:03,359
or their equivalent and just walking

1842
01:07:07,190 --> 01:07:05,920
around in our air pressure you know the

1843
01:07:08,630 --> 01:07:07,200
it's kind of like if you go to the

1844
01:07:10,630 --> 01:07:08,640
bottom of the ocean

1845
01:07:11,750 --> 01:07:10,640
when you have a diver suit on your body

1846
01:07:13,670 --> 01:07:11,760
you'll die you know because they're

1847
01:07:16,630 --> 01:07:13,680
different in pressures and yet these

1848
01:07:17,910 --> 01:07:16,640
things seem perfectly functionable in

1849
01:07:20,390 --> 01:07:17,920
our world

1850
01:07:21,910 --> 01:07:20,400
that again is another reason why we

1851
01:07:23,589 --> 01:07:21,920
might take the view that

1852
01:07:25,990 --> 01:07:23,599
the reason why they cannot operate in

1853
01:07:27,430 --> 01:07:26,000
our atmosphere in our oxygen levels and

1854
01:07:28,870 --> 01:07:27,440
in our pressure

1855
01:07:30,390 --> 01:07:28,880
is because

1856
01:07:32,470 --> 01:07:30,400
beth rob here

1857
01:07:33,990 --> 01:07:32,480
a friend of mine uh the like mactones

1858
01:07:36,150 --> 01:07:34,000
wrote a book on this called the crypto

1859
01:07:38,549 --> 01:07:36,160
terrestrials and uh and although it was

1860
01:07:40,549 --> 01:07:38,559
sort of very speculative mac did make a

1861
01:07:41,670 --> 01:07:40,559
lot of good points along these lines as

1862
01:07:44,150 --> 01:07:41,680
to why

1863
01:07:46,950 --> 01:07:44,160
the whole crypto terrestrial theory at

1864
01:07:48,150 --> 01:07:46,960
the very least should be studied

1865
01:07:50,710 --> 01:07:48,160
at the same level as the

1866
01:07:52,950 --> 01:07:50,720
extraterrestrial one if you know for no

1867
01:07:54,549 --> 01:07:52,960
other reason because both of them

1868
01:07:56,470 --> 01:07:54,559
you know a controversial one if you

1869
01:07:57,589 --> 01:07:56,480
think about it is really no less valid

1870
01:07:58,870 --> 01:07:57,599
than the other

1871
01:08:01,349 --> 01:07:58,880
yeah i mean the point you made about

1872
01:08:03,029 --> 01:08:01,359
compatibility of the biology it makes

1873
01:08:05,190 --> 01:08:03,039
you think you know it definitely should

1874
01:08:07,670 --> 01:08:05,200
the only reason that the

1875
01:08:09,190 --> 01:08:07,680
idea that they're they're based here

1876
01:08:11,109 --> 01:08:09,200
sounds more weird i think is just

1877
01:08:13,349 --> 01:08:11,119
because we hear it less than the space

1878
01:08:14,549 --> 01:08:13,359
alien theory but this has been awesome i

1879
01:08:16,309 --> 01:08:14,559
mean thanks for being one of the first

1880
01:08:18,149 --> 01:08:16,319
guys to do one of these longer shows

1881
01:08:20,870 --> 01:08:18,159
with me we had a whole ton of material

1882
01:08:25,110 --> 01:08:22,630
there's so many good stories there'd

1883
01:08:26,309 --> 01:08:25,120
never be enough time but uh before i cut

1884
01:08:27,910 --> 01:08:26,319
you loose would you like to tell the

1885
01:08:29,349 --> 01:08:27,920
people about any anything more about the

1886
01:08:30,950 --> 01:08:29,359
books or where they can keep up with you

1887
01:08:32,789 --> 01:08:30,960
and your other work

1888
01:08:34,870 --> 01:08:32,799
yeah um well the books we talked about

1889
01:08:37,189 --> 01:08:34,880
tonight were for nobody's eyes only and

1890
01:08:39,430 --> 01:08:37,199
close encounters of the fatal kind

1891
01:08:40,870 --> 01:08:39,440
both available on amazon and or you can

1892
01:08:42,870 --> 01:08:40,880
walk into barnes and noble and get them

1893
01:08:43,990 --> 01:08:42,880
off the shelves there as well

1894
01:08:46,309 --> 01:08:44,000
um

1895
01:08:47,910 --> 01:08:46,319
uh people want to contact me and contact

1896
01:08:49,590 --> 01:08:47,920
me through nick redfern at facebook

1897
01:08:53,189 --> 01:08:49,600
there are few nick redfearns on facebook

1898
01:08:54,870 --> 01:08:53,199
but you'll find me um i have a blog

1899
01:08:57,149 --> 01:08:54,880
which is called world of whatever which

1900
01:09:00,110 --> 01:08:57,159
is nick redfearn40 and

1901
01:09:02,550 --> 01:09:00,120
f-o-r-t-e-a-n redfern 40 and

1902
01:09:04,309 --> 01:09:02,560
blogspot.com and um i'm actually going

1903
01:09:06,390 --> 01:09:04,319
to be talking about some of the stuff we

1904
01:09:08,229 --> 01:09:06,400
talked about tonight at a conference

1905
01:09:09,829 --> 01:09:08,239
uh called the contact in the desert

1906
01:09:12,550 --> 01:09:09,839
conference on the weekend i think it's

1907
01:09:14,630 --> 01:09:12,560
august 6th in joshua tree so i'll be

1908
01:09:17,590 --> 01:09:14,640
there for that entire weekend

1909
01:09:19,590 --> 01:09:17,600
talking about um various books and so on

1910
01:09:21,829 --> 01:09:19,600
and uh so if anybody's coming out say

1911
01:09:23,349 --> 01:09:21,839
hello very cool yeah i

1912
01:09:24,390 --> 01:09:23,359
i forgot you were going to be a contact

1913
01:09:26,550 --> 01:09:24,400
in the desert i'm actually going to be

1914
01:09:28,789 --> 01:09:26,560
there myself but i'm just uh taking my

1915
01:09:30,709 --> 01:09:28,799
dad out for a good time so he can hear

1916
01:09:32,309 --> 01:09:30,719
some of these crazy speakers so i'm

1917
01:09:33,990 --> 01:09:32,319
going to be there in kind of a not a

1918
01:09:35,110 --> 01:09:34,000
professional sense but i'll stop by and

1919
01:09:36,390 --> 01:09:35,120
say hey

1920
01:09:38,550 --> 01:09:36,400
yeah well i have to get a conference

1921
01:09:41,430 --> 01:09:38,560
it's just a good time anyway yeah yeah

1922
01:09:43,030 --> 01:09:41,440
of course so well very cool thanks again

1923
01:09:44,309 --> 01:09:43,040
be careful out there digging up these

1924
01:09:45,910 --> 01:09:44,319
documents you got to take care of

1925
01:09:46,829 --> 01:09:45,920
yourself all right man

1926
01:09:47,990 --> 01:09:46,839
thanks

1927
01:09:50,390 --> 01:09:48,000
man later

1928
01:09:52,070 --> 01:09:50,400
there we have it people and man was it

1929
01:09:54,310 --> 01:09:52,080
great to be able to do an extended

1930
01:09:56,470 --> 01:09:54,320
two-hour show if you enjoyed the first

1931
01:09:59,430 --> 01:09:56,480
hour please sign up for the two-hour

1932
01:10:01,830 --> 01:09:59,440
show at thehiresidechatsplus.com

1933
01:10:03,750 --> 01:10:01,840
it's just five bucks a month for five

1934
01:10:06,149 --> 01:10:03,760
two hour shows with great guests like

1935
01:10:08,870 --> 01:10:06,159
nick in this week's second hour we went

1936
01:10:10,870 --> 01:10:08,880
on to discuss alien viruses associated

1937
01:10:12,870 --> 01:10:10,880
with the roswell wreckage aleister

1938
01:10:15,189 --> 01:10:12,880
crowley working for british intelligence

1939
01:10:17,750 --> 01:10:15,199
the huge strange string of scientist

1940
01:10:20,310 --> 01:10:17,760
deaths working on secret technology the

1941
01:10:21,910 --> 01:10:20,320
cia's operation often to explore

1942
01:10:24,149 --> 01:10:21,920
witchcraft which might have had a

1943
01:10:26,149 --> 01:10:24,159
presence in the death of princess diana

1944
01:10:27,990 --> 01:10:26,159
lots of weird great stuff we wouldn't

1945
01:10:30,310 --> 01:10:28,000
have even had time for in the past but

1946
01:10:31,590 --> 01:10:30,320
now for the hardcore fans it's there for

1947
01:10:34,630 --> 01:10:31,600
people who want to hear it and i've

1948
01:10:36,470 --> 01:10:34,640
recorded three plus shows so far and it

1949
01:10:38,070 --> 01:10:36,480
is a lot more work for me but if it's

1950
01:10:39,590 --> 01:10:38,080
gonna pay the bills eventually and i'm

1951
01:10:41,910 --> 01:10:39,600
not stressing over what the next money

1952
01:10:43,830 --> 01:10:41,920
bombs gonna be i think we're all happier

1953
01:10:45,510 --> 01:10:43,840
for it my parents feel a little bit

1954
01:10:47,350 --> 01:10:45,520
better about where my life might be

1955
01:10:48,870 --> 01:10:47,360
going my girlfriend isn't quite as

1956
01:10:50,149 --> 01:10:48,880
worried about if she fell in love and

1957
01:10:52,149 --> 01:10:50,159
partnered up with someone who's just

1958
01:10:53,990 --> 01:10:52,159
going to be broke all the time and i

1959
01:10:55,590 --> 01:10:54,000
might even be able to get some insurance

1960
01:10:57,669 --> 01:10:55,600
in the future who knows i don't want to

1961
01:10:59,270 --> 01:10:57,679
get too ahead of myself here but if you

1962
01:11:01,030 --> 01:10:59,280
do like the show

1963
01:11:02,910 --> 01:11:01,040
please sign up and again if you're a

1964
01:11:04,550 --> 01:11:02,920
musician please check out the

1965
01:11:07,669 --> 01:11:04,560
highersidechats.com

1966
01:11:09,669 --> 01:11:07,679
music to join the archive you can also

1967
01:11:12,750 --> 01:11:09,679
send your music to

1968
01:11:14,950 --> 01:11:12,760
my music on thc

1969
01:11:17,189 --> 01:11:14,960
gmail.com i'm going to make a big

1970
01:11:18,709 --> 01:11:17,199
archive of all the people that are

1971
01:11:20,870 --> 01:11:18,719
willing to share their music with the

1972
01:11:23,110 --> 01:11:20,880
show because that is something that us

1973
01:11:25,590 --> 01:11:23,120
independent producers and content

1974
01:11:28,310 --> 01:11:25,600
creators have to struggle with because

1975
01:11:29,910 --> 01:11:28,320
the big boys have created a barrier of

1976
01:11:33,110 --> 01:11:29,920
entry because clearly none of us are

1977
01:11:36,709 --> 01:11:33,120
able to afford the music that is popular

1978
01:11:39,110 --> 01:11:36,719
that everybody knows and this puts a cap

1979
01:11:40,390 --> 01:11:39,120
on the quality of a lot of independent

1980
01:11:42,790 --> 01:11:40,400
people's productions because we don't

1981
01:11:45,110 --> 01:11:42,800
have the same tools even though we have

1982
01:11:46,229 --> 01:11:45,120
just as much drive and creative

1983
01:11:48,550 --> 01:11:46,239
integrity

1984
01:11:50,790 --> 01:11:48,560
so for independent artists that are in

1985
01:11:53,030 --> 01:11:50,800
the musical area i figured we might be

1986
01:11:56,790 --> 01:11:53,040
able to collaborate and you can share

1987
01:11:57,910 --> 01:11:56,800
your music with us the podcasters and we

1988
01:12:01,110 --> 01:11:57,920
can

1989
01:12:03,030 --> 01:12:01,120
play your music as bumpers to flush out

1990
01:12:04,790 --> 01:12:03,040
our shows but also to give you a little

1991
01:12:07,669 --> 01:12:04,800
recognition as well

1992
01:12:10,390 --> 01:12:07,679
and propel you to a national global

1993
01:12:12,070 --> 01:12:10,400
stage and it doesn't cost anything so i

1994
01:12:14,630 --> 01:12:12,080
think this is going to be a great system

1995
01:12:16,950 --> 01:12:14,640
for everyone and i am really planning to

1996
01:12:19,350 --> 01:12:16,960
open this up to other podcasters maybe

1997
01:12:22,149 --> 01:12:19,360
make a big podcast musical

1998
01:12:25,030 --> 01:12:22,159
archive that everyone can use so either

1999
01:12:27,030 --> 01:12:25,040
way check it out and next week we have

2000
01:12:29,030 --> 01:12:27,040
an awesome guest that several people

2001
01:12:31,270 --> 01:12:29,040
have asked me to get and i know you're

2002
01:12:34,229 --> 01:12:31,280
gonna love it but i like to keep these

2003
01:12:35,750 --> 01:12:34,239
things a surprise so just be ready and

2004
01:12:38,229 --> 01:12:35,760
thanks again to those who have signed up

2005
01:12:39,990 --> 01:12:38,239
for plus i can't say it enough the few

2006
01:12:41,430 --> 01:12:40,000
people who have are already really

2007
01:12:42,790 --> 01:12:41,440
making a difference in my life and i

2008
01:12:44,870 --> 01:12:42,800
hope to make a difference in yours

2009
01:12:47,510 --> 01:12:44,880
somehow through these shows you are all

2010
01:12:50,070 --> 01:12:47,520
the best enjoy your day i've done my

2011
01:12:52,070 --> 01:12:50,080
part this week your move secret beyond

2012
01:12:53,910 --> 01:12:52,080
the law global conspiracy cover-up and

2013
01:12:57,590 --> 01:12:53,920
cleanup agency that tries to keep us in

2014
01:13:02,709 --> 01:12:57,600
the dark your [\h__\h] move the higher

2015
01:13:07,630 --> 01:13:05,669
with everything you need to know from

2016
01:13:11,910 --> 01:13:07,640
corruption to